GT AUDIO WORKS AXPONA 2019 RM 1430

[GT Audio Works]

Good sounds coming from the GTAW/Sound Insight room at Axpona!

Considering space was tight in that room, the system sounded great.
Dipole bass helps tame room boom.
Those Zanden KR845 amps really had a lot of get up and go for 60 watts.
Later we tried the Zanden stereo amp with a pair of KT120's per channel...gained low end grunt, but lost some of the mid and upper magic the 845's give.
Both gorgeous amps....Worked either way, just a matter of taste.

They say the camera adds 10 lbs ? More like 50 !!!
Geez..I gotta lay off the Ben and Jerrys !!

Greg
GTAW

 

[GT Audio Works]

Considering space was tight in that room, the system sounded great.
Dipole bass helps tame room boom.
Those Zanden KR845 amps really had a lot of get up and go for 60 watts.
Later we tried the Zanden stereo amp with a pair of KT120's per channel...gained low end grunt, but lost some of the mid and upper magic the 845's give.
Both gorgeous amps....Worked either way, just a matter of taste.

They say the camera adds 10 lbs ? More like 50 !!!
Geez..I gotta lay off the Ben and Jerrys !!

Greg
GTAW

Here's another
Headphones sound best...Wish I knew Steve was recording...I would have shut the hell up !!!

 

[ths61]

Here's another
Headphones sound best...Wish I knew Steve was recording...I would have shut the hell up !!!

I have a couple of questions on the dipole subs if you don't mind.

Where are the subs crossed over at and is there any criterion for selecting between SI-[200,300,400,600]s?

TIA

 

[GT Audio Works]

I have a couple of questions on the dipole subs if you don't mind.

Where are the subs crossed over at and is there any criterion for selecting between SI-[200,300,400,600]s?

TIA

I had them set to 50 hz at the show. I find in most rooms they will be set between 50-60 hz.
The EQ on the sub amp may require an adjustment to help room response. In this case the room response had a dip at 65hz so we bumped the eq up in that range to compensate.

The number of subs depends on the size of the room.
Its all about cone area..the more you have the more efficient they can couple to the air allowing each driver to work with less power for the same output. This translates into a greater sense of ease and a bigger wall of sound as the number of subs increases.
2 will work fine in a small room , 3-4 in a medium room and 6 in a large room.
Regardless of the number of subs they will all go down to 16hz in room, though 2 subs in a large room will not do it as cleanly as 6.
The beauty of the system is its modular, you can start out with 2 or 3 and add on more later if you wish.
Greg

 

[josh358]

But they surpass even the mighty IRS-V's and 1st generation Genesis speakers by all reports.

Do they really? I can see them sounding more realistic than sealed subs -- in my experience, dipole bass always does -- but I don't see how they could match the maximum SPL of Nudell's woofer towers, since most of their output is lost to dipole cancellation.

 

[josh358]

John, nice detail move going the stainless supports. Also I’ve only heard Viola twice but was really impressed, great sound and I’d imagine having a DHT linestage up front would be a lovely match but was also thinking that given the sensitivity of your speakers could you consider trying a SET amp as well or do you know if the guys from GTA have ever tried a larger SET running their panels... to be honest I am probably just living out my fantasies vicariously through your setup but I have recently toyed with the notion of checking out the possibility of modding the Maggies magnets with rare earth neodymium ones and trying to get the sensitivity up so it could also then be SET friendly for my 48 watt LM508IA.

I don't see any way you could do that, because the Maggie's magnets are between the perforated pole piece and the diaphragm, so you'd have to rebuild the driver with new mylar and foil.

 

[Bodhi]

Do they really? I can see them sounding more realistic than sealed subs -- in my experience, dipole bass always does -- but I don't see how they could match the maximum SPL of Nudell's woofer towers, since most of their output is lost to dipole cancellation.

Josh, first of all thanks for joining the forum & welcome on board! I'm glad you don't take comments at face value and question. As always though your ears should be the ultimate litmus test.

Re: my comparison to the IRS-V's, I should point out I was careful to say "by all reports" as I have not personally heard the GTA3r/SI speakers yet. I based that on commentary from Peter Breuninger and Kemper Halt who have reviewed the speakers for AV Showrooms. Watch this video. The review starts at 7:19. In it PB compares the GTA3r/SI600 speakers to the IRS-V's. Kemper also describes the enormous bass impact of the Sound Insight servo subs.

I also privately discussed the comparison bewteen the GTA3r/SI600 speakers and IRS-V's with PB, and he had this to say -

"(Me to Peter Breuninger) Peter, are the GT Audio speakers with bass towers really in the league of the IRS-V's? The bass towers remind me of the Linkwitz open baffle bass topology..

(Peter Breuninger) Yes, absolutely. I have lots of ear time on IRS Vs... at HPs, Bill Legalls, and Kevin Olsen's house. The GTs have a better midrange and bigger soundstage."

Re: your question of whether the SI600 open baffle servo subs can match the maximum SPL's of the IRS-V's woofer columns, I got this response from Greg Takesh at GT Audio Works which i'm sure he'll be happy to confirm -

"The GTA3R and sub combo are visceral on a level achieved by few speakers at any price.
Honestly...you have to be careful, the subs will do 15 hz at 120 db..you can hurt your ears !!
Feels like when you descend in a plane and you feel the pressure on your ears, and your ass vibrates in the chair !!
Its intense !!"

Hope that helps.

 

[josh358]

Josh, first of all thanks for joining the forum & welcome on board! I'm glad you don't take comments at face value and question. As always though your ears should be the ultimate litmus test.

Re: my comparison to the IRS-V's, I should point out I was careful to say "by all reports" as I have not personally heard the GTA3r/SI speakers yet. I based that on commentary from Peter Breuninger and Kemper Halt who have reviewed the speakers for AV Showrooms. Watch this video. The review starts at 7:19. In it PB compares the GTA3r/SI600 speakers to the IRS-V's. Kemper also describes the enormous bass impact of the Sound Insight servo subs.

I also privately discussed the comparison bewteen the GTA3r/SI600 speakers and IRS-V's with PB, and he had this to say -

"(Me to Peter Breuninger) Peter, are the GT Audio speakers with bass towers really in the league of the IRS-V's? The bass towers remind me of the Linkwitz open baffle bass topology..

(Peter Breuninger) Yes, absolutely. I have lots of ear time on IRS Vs... at HPs, Bill Legalls, and Kevin Olsen's house. The GTs have a better midrange and bigger soundstage."

Re: your question of whether the SI600 open baffle servo subs can match the maximum SPL's of the IRS-V's woofer columns, I got this response from Greg Takesh at GT Audio Works which i'm sure he'll be happy to confirm -

"The GTA3R and sub combo are visceral on a level achieved by few speakers at any price.
Honestly...you have to be careful, the subs will do 15 hz at 120 db..you can hurt your ears !!
Feels like when you descend in a plane and you feel the pressure on your ears, and your ass vibrates in the chair !!
Its intense !!"

The GTA3r/SI600 system, being a dipole-radiating line-source speaker also enjoy the following benefits -

"The advantage of a line-source loudspeaker is that sound pressure level falls off at -3dB for every doubling of distance away from the loudspeaker instead of -6dB as with a point source loudspeaker. Hence, a point-source and a line-source loudspeaker with the same sensitivity at 1m will have a 6dB difference at 4m. The line-source loudspeaker will have double the sound pressure level at the listening position." - Gary Koh, Genesis Advanced Technologies.

Hope that helps.

Thanks, Bodhi, I honestly don't know why it's taken me so long to join, looks like a great group. And thanks for the information on the GR subs -- 15 Hz at 120 dB is mind blowing! I had no idea they could achieve that kind of output -- I suppose I was thinking in terms of the Linkwitz. If the IRS V could do better than that, you wouldn't want it to.

Interesting too that the GT Audios have a bigger soundstage than the IRS. I remember the IRS as having had the most spectacularly defined soundstage I've ever heard -- it felt like I could thread my way between the instruments. I've never heard imaging so holographic. But it didn't strike me as *real,* in the sense that I've never had that impression with live music. Whereas I've only heard the GTA's under show conditions, so only have a rough impression of what they can do.

 

[Bodhi]

Thanks, Bodhi, I honestly don't know why it's taken me so long to join, looks like a great group. And thanks for the information on the GR subs -- 15 Hz at 120 dB is mind blowing! I had no idea they could achieve that kind of output -- I suppose I was thinking in terms of the Linkwitz. If the IRS V could do better than that, you wouldn't want it to.

Interesting too that the GT Audios have a bigger soundstage than the IRS. I remember the IRS as having had the most spectacularly defined soundstage I've ever heard -- it felt like I could thread my way between the instruments. I've never heard imaging so holographic. But it didn't strike me as *real,* in the sense that I've never had that impression with live music. Whereas I've only heard the GTA's under show conditions, so only have a rough impression of what they can do.

You're welcome Josh. I second your comments about the IRS-V's, having heard those beasts back in 1990 at Tivoli Hifi. Whilst the GTA3r/SI speakers can work extremely well in small room such as at Axpona this year, they will benefit from atleast a medium size room which allows you to bring them 1/3rd out into the room. And like Carnegie Hall, proper attention to room acoustics can really pay dividends.

 

[ths61]

...

The number of subs depends on the size of the room.
...
2 will work fine in a small room , 3-4 in a medium room and 6 in a large room.
Regardless of the number of subs they will all go down to 16hz in room, though 2 subs in a large room will not do it as cleanly as 6.
...

Greg,

Thanks for the quick feedback. The scalable modularity is great.

Would a 13.5' x 25' x 8' room that opens in the back be considered a medium size room ?

TIA

 

[josh358]

You're welcome Josh. I second your comments about the IRS-V's, having heard those beasts back in 1990 at Tivoli Hifi. Whilst the GTA3r/SI speakers can work extremely well in small room such as at Axpona this year, they will benefit from atleast a medium size room which allows you to bring them 1/3rd out into the room. And like Carnegie Hall, proper attention to room acoustics can really pay dividends.

Yep, I know planars. I've had Maggies for years, currently have an old pair of Tympani IVa's. I managed to squeeze them into a ludicrously small room (13 x 14), but they're almost in the middle of the room -- 5' out from the front wall -- and I had to use room treatment and an unconventional split panel arrangement to get it to work. It took me a long time to dial them in!

 

[Bodhi]

Greg,

Thanks for the quick feedback. The scalable modularity is great.

Would a 13.5' x 25' x 8' room that opens in the back be considered a medium size room ?

TIA

Being the Easter weekend, Greg is probably taking a break. A general idea of room size would be...

Small Room< 1,500 ft3
Medium Room1,500 ft3 - 3,000 ft3
Large Room3,000 ft3 - 5,000 ft3

I used a Volume Calculator to calculate your room's size in square feet. Not counting the extra volume from the area it opens up to, your room is approx 2800 cu. ft. Therefore i'd describe your room as large by volume. If you had doors to close off the room, then it would be medium-large.

 

[ths61]

Being the Easter weekend, Greg is probably taking a break. A general idea of room size would be...

Small Room< 1,500 ft3
Medium Room1,500 ft3 - 3,000 ft3
Large Room3,000 ft3 - 5,000 ft3

I used a Volume Calculator to calculate your room's size in square feet. Not counting the extra volume from the area it opens up to, your room is approx 2800 cu. ft. Therefore i'd describe your room as large room by volume. If you had doors to close off the room, then it would be medium-large.

Thanks for the quick feedback.

 

[GT Audio Works]

Greg,

Thanks for the quick feedback. The scalable modularity is great.

Would a 13.5' x 25' x 8' room that opens in the back be considered a medium size room ?

TIA

I wish I was taking a break as Bodhi suggested..been busy building to fill orders.

Regarding your room...
THe 13.5' dimension is about minimum width, since the speakers are 19.5" wide and you would want them at least
6 - 7ft apart and a foot from the side walls.
The 25' dimension would allow them to be placed far enough from the rear wall and give you enough listening distance.
As far as small or medium I would agree with Bodhi's calculations

 

[Bodhi]

AV Showroom's coverage of the GT Audio Works/Sound Insight room. It's worth it just to hear Soprano Daisy Brown perform Mozart's Agnus Dei with Church Organ. Stunning sound!!

 

[Bodhi]

Congratulations to Greg, Steve and the other partners who contributed to the success of this room. Well deserved recognition!

 

[allvinyl]

Josh - I agree with Greg's performance description of what 6 drivers / side can do in the appropriate size room. The impact can be disconcerting when the SPLs climb. I spent 2 days listening with Greg and Steve in Steve's demo room and can attest to the OB subs' capabilities.

It was the total GT/SI experience over those 2 days that convinced me to purchase the GT/SI speaker system. For now, I am using the SI-200 subs (see link for pics and vids) but can see upgrading at some point. My basement room is 36' long with 7'2" ceiling. For the first 12' of the room it is 15' wide. The rest of the room is 18' wide. It also has an extra 10' of width on the left side for the last 12' of the room. So as you face the speakers, the room is backwards "L" shaped as in "_|".

Pics:
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/gt-audio-works-axpona-2019-rm-1430.27268/page-3

Videos:
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/thre...-sound-insight-open-baffle-sub-woofers.27761/

 

[josh358]

Wow, I envy you your space! Dipoles just love being out from the front wall. And congrats on your purchase! I remember the bass in the GT room as being very solid, but truth is, I didn't know what woofers I was listening to until a friend told me afterwards, I thought the subs were sealed -- which I think say something. And remember liking the overall sound in the room very much. It should be an amazing system even before you upgrade the subs.