Furutech project V1

[SOS]

Follow-up: Adding a 2nd Project V1 now communicates tremendous natural detail, clarity and revealing new layers of information I never knew was in recordings. How can this be from a power cord? It baffles me but puts a smile on my face for hours upon hours, truly amazing.

 

[Piotr_905]

Wow, happy for you! The good question in general is how can power cords make such a difference at all? I remeber the times when you would have been locked up in an asylum for claiming theories on power cables, and now it turns out they do make all the difference!

 

[joaovieira]

Hi guys, very interesting experiences with Furutech.

I have something to ask. I have 3 double outlets GTX NCF (R) in wall. The cable I feed them is Furutech FP S55N. My power cables are all made of the same cable with NCF plugs FI50. I like it very much, it seems natural and I have no regrets.

My doubt is about the use of the Receptacles in wall vs the use of a power strip. Many have a main outlet and a power strip. I have the outlets all in wall.

Is there a difference in quality of the power supply?

 

[nirodha]

Hi guys, very interesting experiences with Furutech.

I have something to ask. I have 3 double outlets GTX NCF (R) in wall. The cable I feed them is Furutech FP S55N. My power cables are all made of the same cable with NCF plugs FI50. I like it very much, it seems natural and I have no regrets.

My doubt is about the use of the Receptacles in wall vs the use of a power strip. Many have a main outlet and a power strip. I have the outlets all in wall.

Is there a difference in quality of the power supply?

hi there, I think it all depends on the “ power strip” … I think all the higher end NCF distributors would improve your sound. However, there is only one way to find out and that is trying one or two in your own set.

 

[joaovieira]

hi there, I think it all depends on the “ power strip” … I think all the higher end NCF distributors would improve your sound. However, there is only one way to find out and that is trying one or two in your own set.

Thank you very much. However it is impossible without buying one.
I would like to understand how the power distributor improves the sound compared to in wall receptacles.

 

[SOS]

Yes but again it all depends on how they are made. Over the years I've used ones that take away dynamics and others that did very little. One of the few I find does a great job is from SIN Audio. I've had 3 of these over the last 5 yrs

Power Split Device — SIN Audio Boutique

www.sinaudioboutique.com

Read about them on their website

 

[joaovieira]

Yes but again it all depends on how they are made. Over the years I've used ones that take away dynamics and others that did very little. One of the few I find does a great job is from SIN Audio. I've had 3 of these over the last 5 yrs

Power Split Device — SIN Audio Boutique

www.sinaudioboutique.com

Read about them on their website

I know those power distributors. They are very very good according to a friend of mine that has one.
My question remains: what’s better on them compared to in wall.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

...In my opinion, if the outlets in the wall will allow you to plug in all of your gear, that saves another power cable and more devices in the power chain.

A couple of caveats:
--If the multiple outlets have significant differences in the cable lengths back to the main box, there may be ground or current differentials to consider.
--If you have concerns about noise being shared across components (or introduced by one component and "polluting" another), or noisy power in your home, a power device with isolation/filtering might be a net-positive in your system.

You may have theories about the items above as they relate to your situation, but you may not know for certain until you add a power strip, conditioner, or battery to your system.

 

[John T]

@joaovieira: None of this is etched in stone however you have some very fine cables in S55N with F1-50 Connectors. I don't know what your grid or incoming AC is like. I have six NCF receptacles, Furutech DPS 4.1 cables with F1-50R. I utilize my outlets. IMO, utilize those fine outlets and simplify. Power strips? Wide range, more potential issues.

 

[nirodha]

I know those power distributors. They are very very good according to a friend of mine that has one.
My question remains: what’s better on them compared to in wall.

More resolution, greater insight into soundstage, purity of sound, less smearing, increased “you are there“ feeling, more live sounding. All this I can attest concerning the Pure Power 6 NCF. The only power distributor I can recommend buying without testing.

 

[Cellcbern]

...In my opinion, if the outlets in the wall will allow you to plug in all of your gear, that saves another power cable and more devices in the power chain.

A couple of caveats:
--If the multiple outlets have significant differences in the cable lengths back to the main box, there may be ground or current differentials to consider.
--If you have concerns about noise being shared across components (or introduced by one component and "polluting" another), or noisy power in your home, a power device with isolation/filtering might be a net-positive in your system.

You may have theories about the items above as they relate to your situation, but you may not know for certain until you add a power strip, conditioner, or battery to your system.

If you are just using wall outlets or even a distributor how/where are you getting the noise filtration that a good power conditioner provides?

 

[joaovieira]

More resolution, greater insight into soundstage, purity of sound, less smearing, increased “you are there“ feeling, more live sounding. All this I can attest concerning the Pure Power 6 NCF. The only power distributor I can recommend buying without testing.

This is an opinion or have you actually done the comparison?
Because if you consider that the outlets are the same and the complete furutech receptacles in the wall are protected against vibration; that you connect the outlets to the main line in a star format, using good cables (I use the same S55N).
I wonder why it would make such a difference a power distributor. It makes no sense.

 

[joaovieira]

...In my opinion, if the outlets in the wall will allow you to plug in all of your gear, that saves another power cable and more devices in the power chain.

A couple of caveats:
--If the multiple outlets have significant differences in the cable lengths back to the main box, there may be ground or current differentials to consider.
--If you have concerns about noise being shared across components (or introduced by one component and "polluting" another), or noisy power in your home, a power device with isolation/filtering might be a net-positive in your system.

You may have theories about the items above as they relate to your situation, but you may not know for certain until you add a power strip, conditioner, or battery to your system.

Thank you, Markus.

I run 2 phases with 50 ft of S55N Furutech cable underground outside the house. Then it gets in the wall in front of the outlets and connect to the 3 GTX (R) NCF and to 2 GTX (R).
The system is connected to the NCF outlets only.

I feel nothing missing. But I will build a dedicated room this year and will run 100 ft of S55N with only 1 phase. So I am curious about how a power distributor would compare to the outlets in the wall.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

you are just using wall outlets or even a distributor how/where are you getting the noise filtration that a good power conditioner provides?

Hi @Cellcbern apologies if my language was unclear in some way. The noise reduction/filtration aspect of my comment was based on technology which some manufacturers state exist in their devices.

I do not recall specific outlets attached to this claim, but there are some reports that QSA and NCF provide some degree of "noise" reduction.

Shunyata, for example, states that they have power cables and power distributors that isolate noise from cross-contaminating among devices. That would be their NIC technology in the Omega cables and Everest device.
(USPatent Number: US 8,658,892)

I personally use a Sound Application TT7 power device. That designer does not isolate against device to device cross-contamination; his design emphasizes Common Mode and Transverse Mode noise reduction. Sounds to me like it works great.

In fact, this long weekend, I had a Stromtank 2500Q to demo, but I found minimal improvement to my gear. The 10ga. stranded THHN dedicated line and TT7 does a great job already. I will run a dedicated 6ga line soon.
TT7:
2.6 GigaHertz Bandwidth Transverse Mode filter
1.1 GigaHertz Common Mode Noise elimination

I hope that makes sense...

 

[Cellcbern]

Hi @Cellcbern apologies if my language was unclear in some way. The noise reduction/filtration aspect of my comment was based on technology which some manufacturers state exist in their devices.

I do not recall specific outlets attached to this claim, but there are some reports that QSA and NCF provide some degree of "noise" reduction.

Shunyata, for example, states that they have power cables and power distributors that isolate noise from cross-contaminating among devices. That would be their NIC technology in the Omega cables and Everest device.
(USPatent Number: US 8,658,892)

I personally use a Sound Application TT7 power device. That designer does not isolate against device to device cross-contamination; his design emphasizes Common Mode and Transverse Mode noise reduction. Sounds to me like it works great.

In fact, this long weekend, I had a Stromtank 2500Q to demo, but I found minimal improvement to my gear. The 10ga. stranded THHN dedicated line and TT7 does a great job already. I will run a dedicated 6ga line soon.
TT7:
2.6 GigaHertz Bandwidth Transverse Mode filter
1.1 GigaHertz Common Mode Noise elimination

I hope that makes sense...

In my experience no outlets, filtering cables, noise filters, or even power conditioners by themselves can reduce noise to inaudible levels. It takes a suite of such devices together to reduce all forms of noise to the point that you are getting almost exclusively music signal-something I have recently achieved. Note that his is in a dedicated listening room with all components isolated and tuned, and advanced room acoustical treatment.

I use the Bybee Stealth Power Purifier - a passive power conditioner (best I have found) at the end of a dedicated line along with more than a dozen different noise reduction devices (Bybee Music Rails, Audio Magic Pulse Gen ZX, Quantum Physics Noise Disruptors, Shakti "Air" Stones, Lessloss Firewall 640X Entropic noise filters and CMARC Entropic PC, Furutech NCF Clear Lines and Booster Braces, Bybee IQSE's, and Bybee Quantum Clarifiers on the driver magnets, signal and chassis grounding via Puritan Audio Labs Groundmaster City devices, etc. I do not suspect that I have eliminated 100% of noise but I am close enough that I am hearing only music - completely natural sounding with superb articulation and no etch, glare, brightness, or emphasis.

 

[John T]

I know several people who use Sound Applications with great results. (not heard on my part) I have spoken with Keith, good guy. Different applications apply, I'm not running dual Class A Mephisto into anything, I use separate circuits for each side. All of this is relative to your system.
For me with the Extreme and living in RURAL AMERICA, BP would be interesting.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

But I will build a dedicated room this year and will run 100 ft of S55N with only 1 phase

Hey @joaovieira I cannot recall if you are on 120v or 220v, although you may have mentioned it previously.

That S55N cable is very nice, but I believe it is 10 gauge. 10 gauge over 100 feet at 220v is minimally acceptable, as I recall (US code). But if 120v I think 8ga. is specified. That would specify a 3% voltage drop, BTW. No problem for household appliances, but perhaps you would notice it on your nice hifi. The difference in impedance comparing 10 to 8 gauge would be significant too.

I think if @Kingrex were here, he would suggest THHN or 8ga sheathed cable ("Romex" or even 6 ga) over 100 feet. Ha! Probably a sub-panel too! He loves those sub panels (and why not).

But you know you region and your needs, what is possible building locally, etc. But a new room will be a nice project. Good Luck!

 

[Cellcbern]

Hey @joaovieira I cannot recall if you are on 120v or 220v, although you may have mentioned it previously.

That S55N cable is very nice, but I believe it is 10 gauge. 10 gauge over 100 feet at 220v is minimally acceptable, as I recall (US code). But if 120v I think 8ga. is specified. That would specify a 3% voltage drop, BTW. No problem for household appliances, but perhaps you would notice it on your nice hifi. The difference in impedance comparing 10 to 8 gauge would be significant too.

I think if @Kingrex were here, he would suggest THHN or 8ga sheathed cable ("Romex" or even 6 ga) over 100 feet. Ha! Probably a sub-panel too! He loves those sub panels (and why not).

But you know you region and your needs, what is possible building locally, etc. But a new room will be a nice project. Good Luck!

I did 30A line (6 awg I believe) from main breaker panel to dedicated audio room breaker box (about 60') and 20A/10awg from there (about 15') to Oyaide R1 outlet. Used JPS Labs in-wall wire for the 20A line.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

...yeah, I used the term "Romex" since it is commonly understood. I think the 6ga cable I have is generically termed: twisted triple, or similar. Hot, neutral and ground, sheathed to meet code for walls and residential runs.

I do like the sheathed cable I have, but honestly, the #10 stranded THHN sounds great. I think honchos would recommend running in Smurf tube, I used flexible metallic conduit.

I'm sure the cable you ran is, and sounds, excellent. And the sub-panel is very helpful, isn't it? Sounds very nice @Cellcbern

 

[Cellcbern]

...yeah, I used the term "Romex" since it is commonly understood. I think the 6ga cable I have is generically termed: twisted triple, or similar. Hot, neutral and ground, sheathed to meet code for walls and residential runs.

I do like the sheathed cable I have, but honestly, the #10 stranded THHN sounds great. I think honchos would recommend running in Smurf tube, I used flexible metallic conduit.

I'm sure the cable you ran is, and sounds, excellent. And the sub-panel is very helpful, isn't it? Sounds very nice @Cellcbern

I'm happy with it.