First listen to WAMM from TAS

[853guy]

Well the latest Ferrari came out at 500k and resales are going @ 3 times that. Many owners are now collectors and now drive these less and less. Let's not forget when governments print vast amounts of money, the result will be asset inflation. This can be seen in high end audio as well. A vicious circle.

wrong! the reason the 997/991 GT3 and GT3RS (hell ... even the GT4) can demand a premium and inflate in value is due to basic supply / demand. you can buy a new 991.2 911 that will come awful close to the performance of the 991 GT3 for about $25K less list. wilson audio speakers DO NOT inflate in value.

Hi RogerD, Hi slcaudiophile,

Look, it’s a crude analogy to be sure, and perhaps I made my point inelegantly. My apologies.

What I intended to say was that LaFerrari’s and 918’s go for more than the asking price because of many factors, but ultimately, because both manufacturers have already established a reputation within the market they inhabit for creating products of relatively high performance at the upper-end of the premium/luxury spectrum (and have a history of releasing limited edition halo cars previously).

I’m not saying inflation and supply/demand aren’t factors, just that if any speaker manufacturer wanted to release a halo product costing $650K it would make the most sense for it to be a player in the market that has a historical reputation for releasing products that are considered by many to be some of the best performing relative to the competition, and already occupy the upper-end of that market with existing models. Wilson Audio seems to fit that to a “t”, more so than say, Bose or PSB.

 

[slcaudiophile]

fun fact. one pair of those 7' wilson audio thingies or 43 pairs of sabrinas. that is my point. dave wilson WTF? seriously?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I think the whole collector car/ super car analogy to the WAMM is not applicable at all.

no one is collecting 'super-uber' speaker systems. and no one is even thinking about it. whereas the world is filled with rich and super rich who might own 3 or 5 or 10 or more of these cars. and the supply and demand seems to support the collecting direction.

and we could talk about watches, or sailboats, or wine....and value gets supported by market forces. the market and demand is broad enough for the value to be reinforced.

nothing like that happens in high end audio.

so with speaker systems the value has to be in the performance, or exclusivity or the pride of ownership. unlikely anyone will ever make a speculative profit on the WAMM. I wonder how many will be purchased based on a 3rd party recommendation, compared to the end user knowing about it and buying it for themselves....a check mark as opposed to a personal passion.

I'm happy that Wilson expects to sell all 50 (or 70) they are building. to me, that is a healthy sign for the high end. and Wilson has earned the right to make this product.

my interest is in just where the performance of the WAMM will end up, whether this is a tweaked current tech product or new tech ground, and will anyone ever shower the love and care and system development attention on this new WAMM that it deserves? and honestly, will it offer any more ultimate performance from a speaker than what I hear every day?

I could care less about the marketing implications or any higher societal implications.

 

[853guy]

fun fact. one pair of those 7' wilson audio thingies or 43 pairs of sabrinas. that is my point. dave wilson WTF? seriously?

Hi slcaudiophile,

You do understand $15K for a pair of Sabrina's is already insane in a world where over three billion people live on less than $2.50 a day and 80% of the world's population live on less than ten bucks, right? The fact that we're on this forum debating the relative value of speakers at the lower-end of what we'd consider truly "high-end" costing four times what 80% of the world lives on makes most of us one-percenters, like it or not.

 

[ddk]

Ahem! Been collecting & selling uber horns & tts for two decades ! The original WAMM is already on many collectors lists...

I think the whole collector car/ super car analogy to the WAMM is not applicable at all.

no one is collecting 'super-uber' speaker systems. and no one is even thinking about it. whereas the world is filled with rich and super rich who might own 3 or 5 or 10 or more of these cars. and the supply and demand seems to support the collecting direction.

and we could talk about watches, or sailboats, or wine....and value gets supported by market forces. the market and demand is broad enough for the value to be reinforced.

nothing like that happens in high end audio.

so with speaker systems the value has to be in the performance, or exclusivity or the pride of ownership. unlikely anyone will ever make a speculative profit on the WAMM. I wonder how many will be purchased based on a 3rd party recommendation, compared to the end user knowing about it and buying it for themselves.

I'm happy that Wilson expects to sell all 50 (or 70) they are building. to me, that is a healthy sign for the high end. and Wilson has earned the right to make this product.

my interest is in just where the performance of the WAMM will end up, whether this is a tweaked current tech product or new tech ground, and will anyone ever shower the love and care and system development attention that it deserves? and honestly, will it offer any more ultimate performance from a speaker than what I hear every day?

I could care less about the marketing implications or any higher societal implications.

david

 

[853guy]

I think the whole collector car/ super car analogy to the WAMM is not applicable at all.

no one is collecting 'super-uber' speaker systems. and no one is even thinking about it. whereas the world is filled with rich and super rich who might own 3 or 5 or 10 or more of these cars. and the supply and demand seems to support the collecting direction.

Try and get an original Western Electric anything, Mike for what it was worth twenty years ago. Simply impossible.

Edit: Or wait for ddk to post. I was too late.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Ahem! Been collecting & selling uber horns & tts for two decades ! The original WAMM is already on many collectors lists...

david

very narrow and limited market place with zero broad based applications.

again; nothing like cars or watches or wines.

I'm not pooh-pooh'ing your personal passions.....but it's not even close to the same thing.

maybe help me to see how this $650,000 speaker system might fall into your thinking. are you saying that the new WAMM could be come like the WE relics?

 

[853guy]

very narrow and limited market place with zero broad based applications.

again; nothing like cars or watches or wines.

I'm not pooh-pooh'ing your personal passions.....but it's not even close to the same thing.

That is the entirety of high-end hi-fi in one sentence ($25K tone arms included).

 

[slcaudiophile]

no i don't. but im not very smart ... my iq is similar to that of bush 43 except i don't make up words and what not.

i own a pair of $23K speakers or whatever the heck these things retail for now and i am NOT a 1%'r ... not even close.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

That is the entirety of high-end hi-fi in one sentence.

exactly.....it will never be like cars.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Try and get an original Western Electric anything, Mike for what it was worth twenty years ago. Simply impossible.

Edit: Or wait for ddk to post. I was too late.

I guess first I'd have to want Western Electric anything. which I do not.

maybe I should want it. but I don't know enough to know that. fair. but if I don't know enough, what does that say about the significance of it. it's a tiny little wart on the high end scene. let alone the larger world. people collect all kinds of scarce things....

 

[853guy]

I guess first I'd have to want Western Electric anything. which I do not.

maybe I should want it. but I don't know enough to know that. fair. but if I don't know enough, what does that say about the significance of it. it's a tiny little wart on the high end scene. let alone the larger world. people collect all kinds of scarce things.

Hi Mike,

Totally. There are lots of people who don't want an original numbers Miura either, but the fact is our perspective is skewed by the reality that we discuss $25K tonearms here everyday without consideration of their wider significance. To some of us, a $25K tonearm is significant, and certainly, significant enough to make us pay for it - even without a broader historical precedent in which to contextualise it.

My take on it is that we live in a world of gross asymmetry, in which a car from 1968 can be worth $1.5 million despite the fact it wasn't really all that reliable, had a habit of setting itself alight because the carbs would flood and then ignite on start-up, and had complete inconsistency of build one-to-another (the term is "coach built"). In which a $25K Carmel 2 can be considered "great value", and an exotic piece of cable to attach a component to a box filled with undisclosed materials for "grounding purposes" can be considered a "must have".

We are just incredibly privileged. And us high-end folk...? Insanely privileged. We value that which is considered not just expensive, but utterly and completely unjustifiably unconscionable to most of the world. And I completely understand why it seems that way.

 

[microstrip]

(...) my interest is in just where the performance of the WAMM will end up, whether this is a tweaked current tech product or new tech ground, and will anyone ever shower the love and care and system development attention on this new WAMM that it deserves? and honestly, will it offer any more ultimate performance from a speaker than what I hear every day?

I could care less about the marketing implications or any higher societal implications.

+1!

Considering performance, I am particularly curious to learn about it, because it is supposed to be much better than the XLF (a speaker I know fairly well) and a few reviewers known for their large experience and different preferences were very clear in their assessments.

 

[ddk]

very narrow and limited market place with zero broad based applications.

again; nothing like cars or watches or wines.

I'm not pooh-pooh'ing your personal passions.....but it's not even close to the same thing.

maybe help me to see how this $650,000 speaker system might fall into your thinking. are you saying that the new WAMM could be come like the WE relics?

I don't have a crystal ball Mike if I did I would have hung on to my Dino instead of selling it for $8000 back then! Who knows what this WAMM will do in 30-40 years there are many variables to consider including that it could be a dud.

To be honest in the whole scheme of things I don't see high end audio broad based but things don't need to have mass appeal to be collectable, it's all about passion!

david

 

[slcaudiophile]

I don't have a crystal ball Mike if I did I would have hung on to my Dino instead of selling it for $8000 back then! Who knows what this WAMM will do in 30-40 years there are many variables to consider including that it could be a dud.

To be honest in the whole scheme of things I don't see high end audio broad based but things don't need to have mass appeal to be collectable, it's all about passion!

david

those speakers are so cool in your system 1 link. i bet they throw a massive soundstage. wow.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I don't have a crystal ball Mike if I did I would have hung on to my Dino instead of selling it for $8000 back then! Who knows what this WAMM will do in 30-40 years there are many variables to consider including that it could be a dud.

To be honest in the whole scheme of things I don't see high end audio broad based but things don't need to have mass appeal to be collectable, it's all about passion!

david

I sold my 66' Jaguar 4.2 XKE Roadster for $2000 in 1973.

and there were a few others that I wish I still had.....like the 61' Austin Healey 100-6 I sold for $500 in 1971.

but those are cars, and lot's of people are into cars.

not so speakers or tt's. and while there are a few folks who place a relative high value in certain vintage audio gear, it's nothing even close to cars. and there are no current audio products that have any sort of projected multiples of market value like some new Ferrari's or Porsche's or even.....Fords.

so the car analogy with the WAMM is simply not relevant at all.

 

[slcaudiophile]

I sold my 66' Jaguar 4.2 XKE Roadster for $2000 in 1973.
and there were a few others that I wish I still had.....like the 61' Austin Healey 100-6 I sold for $500 in 1971.

but those are cars, and lot's of people are into cars.

not so speakers or tt's. and while there are a few folks who place a relative high value in certain vintage audio gear, it's nothing even close to cars. and there are no current products that have any sort of projected multiples of market value like some new Ferrari's or Porsche's or even.....Fords.

so the car analogy with the WAMM is simply not relevant at all.

wait what? didn't they only produce like 7,000 of those? $2K in 73? i think the buying power of a $1 then compared to now is 5.5 times. so you would have sold for the equivalent of $11K in todays dollars? someone got a good deal.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

wait what? didn't they only produce like 7,000 of those? $2K in 73? i think the buying power of a $1 then compared to now is 5.5 times. so you would have sold for the equivalent of $11K in todays dollars? someone got a good deal.

it was around $6500 list price in 1966. I bought it for $1500 in 71' and then sold it for $2k 2 years later.

the 65' through 67' XKE are most desirable. covered headlights, full syncro trans, triple SU carbs with zero emissions, tiny bumpers. really nice one's go for over $100k, good ones $75k or more. bodies are not so scarce, decent examples are relatively scarce. it's a hell of a car to drive. lots of power, very light weight. debatably as beautiful a car as any ever built.

 

[Mdp632]

wait what? didn't they only produce like 7,000 of those? $2K in 73? i think the buying power of a $1 then compared to now is 5.5 times. so you would have sold for the equivalent of $11K in todays dollars? someone got a good deal.

Wilson is probably charging this amount because he can. However, I (Me, Personally) don't believe they (Wilson) are the leader in terms of material science and or loudspeaker dynamic driver speaker technology today. Why is he is charging almost 700K for a speaker made almost made out of entirely wood.

 

[ddk]

those speakers are so cool in your system 1 link. i bet they throw a massive soundstage. wow.

They do but unfortunately my room isn't theater sized.....

david