Fidelity Research FR64s versus FR64fx

bonzo75

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#41
In analog it is very difficult to know. Schopper is satisfactory for sure.
 

spiritofmusic

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Jun 13, 2013
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#42
It’s very easy to know.
Do I like the sound, do I want to play lp after lp on this tt, can I afford it?
If you can answer yes to these three qs, you buy it.
As I said, easy to know.

Of course if you’re talking buyers remorse, FOMO, tyranny of choice, that’s a whole set of psychoses that badly affect certain insecure audiophiles. However nothing in your never ending demos/compares Möbius Loop suggests this.
 

bonzo75

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#43
It also depends on the system. A horn or Tannoy system will sound very satisfactory with the schopper, while it might sound noisy or less resolution in a boulder/CH cone system. Vinyl goodness flows through more easily in a set horn or Tannoy system.
 

bonzo75

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#44
It’s very easy to know.
Do I like the sound, do I want to play lp after lp, can I afford it.
If you can answer yes to these three qs, you buy it.
As I said, easy to know.

Of course if you’re talking buyers remorse, FOMO, tyranny of choice, that’s a whole set of audiophile psychoses. However nothing in your never ending demos/compares Möbius Loop suggests these.
Yes schopper answers your first para. And yes, I am talking off audiophile psychoses.
 

spiritofmusic

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#45
Ked, it’s a total joy that my initially priced £2400 tt/arm combination with some judicious cost effective upgrades leaves me w zero desire to own a more typically overpriced belt drive.

Quite why when you’re cognitively relaxed w Schopper you feel the need to look further is beyond me.

So what if Balance brings a further degree of other attributes?

Just get the Schopper up and running, get a daily diet/fix of vinyl.

And if you really pine for more over time, reinvestigate.

Absolutely no vinylphiles ever got it spot on re first purchase.

But nothing in yr prose suggests Schopper will be anything other than a very astute purchase.
 

ddk

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#46
Both arms are copper version. I have completely disassembled, assembled and re-aligned the Oracle III and started by mounting the Kiseki Agaat Ruby in the FR66s - 230 mm and 50 mm as you said. The cartridge is apparently as new - and contrary to my fears no mistracking at all!

A lot of fun and a great sound - full bodied and dynamic, although the Oracle has a colored, but very enjoyable bass. I must say that listening to Graceland in vinyl is much nicer than in CD!:D
You're lucky to have found copper versions Francisco all of my FR arms have silver wiring which I don't like :(. Kisekis were very colored cartridges don't think you'll be getting into them for long term listening, good thing is that there's always someone who'd like to try one and are easy to resell.

david
 

bonzo75

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#47
You're lucky to have found copper versions Francisco all of my FR arms have silver wiring which I don't like :(. Kisekis were very colored cartridges don't think you'll be getting into them for long term listening, good thing is that there's always someone who'd like to try one and are easy to resell.

david
The purple heart was not at all colored. Reading reports the old ones were colored like koetsu and the new ones weren't
 

ddk

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#48
The purple heart was not at all colored. Reading reports the old ones were colored like koetsu and the new ones weren't
Haven't heard any of the new models I never cared for the old ones to have any interest, all too colored for my tastes but I still keep an old Blue that I mount once in a long while for a couple of tracks before taking it off again.

david
 

Kcin

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#49
@bonzo75 a used Balance is very approachable. Later models do in fact an option for two arms. When I bought my LaGrange it was new in a box from the distributor at a good price . I had planned a Balance but the LaGrange had more drive to me. The Balance is excellent and the choice between either LaGrange or Balance may be user preference.

I ended up making a custom anodized arm pod for mine so that I could have 2 arms. And yes you need the tube supply .. it just transforms these tables.

I also just ordered a HRS M3X still in the crate and yet to be installed. Right now the table sits on 100lb brass plate repurposed from a Goldmund Reference on a heavy steel frame with a Syposium svelte shelf for some isolation.

I think the Brinkmann's are very well machined and can sound very good with the right set up and combination of arms and cartridges, they can be a bargain on the used market.

IMG_0391.jpg

IMG_0394 (002).jpg

IMG_0396 (002).jpg
 

Tango

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#50
Yes that's the issue. A newer one has two arms. And you can change the arms quickly.
My friend is a dealer for Brinkmann. I can squeeze his throat for you.
 

bonzo75

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#51
My friend is a dealer for Brinkmann. I can squeeze his throat for you.
Thanks Tang, but given my fickle nature let me confirm on that first before I turn you into a serial killer
 

bonzo75

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#52
And it looks lovely too! I haven't heard the Lagrange yet, that is next on my list. One of the owners of the Balance here in London loved the Balance much more than his Lagrange, while I have heard the livelier Lagrange feedback from one other. Those for the Balance state its authority, weight and bass as better than the Lagrange. So far I haven't found the Balance laid back and its weight, authority and linearity through midbass and bass have been key points for me.

@bonzo75 a used Balance is very approachable. Later models do in fact an option for two arms. When I bought my LaGrange it was new in a box from the distributor at a good price . I had planned a Balance but the LaGrange had more drive to me. The Balance is excellent and the choice between either LaGrange or Balance may be user preference.

I ended up making a custom anodized arm pod for mine so that I could have 2 arms. And yes you need the tube supply .. it just transforms these tables.

I also just ordered a HRS M3X still in the crate and yet to be installed. Right now the table sits on 100lb brass plate repurposed from a Goldmund Reference on a heavy steel frame with a Syposium svelte shelf for some isolation.

I think the Brinkmann's are very well machined and can sound very good with the right set up and combination of arms and cartridges, they can be a bargain on the used market.

View attachment 40823

View attachment 40824

View attachment 40825
 

Kcin

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#53
And it looks lovely too! I haven't heard the Lagrange yet, that is next on my list. One of the owners of the Balance here in London loved the Balance much more than his Lagrange, while I have heard the livelier Lagrange feedback from one other. Those for the Balance state its authority, weight and bass as better than the Lagrange. So far I haven't found the Balance laid back and its weight, authority and linearity through midbass and bass have been key points for me.
Yes, the Balance has the edge on weight over the Balance. I have heard them side by side with Brinkmann arms and cartridges. You will prefer one over the other depending on your listener preferences. The LaGrange got squeezed out because it was too competitive with the Balance and the mfr. wanted to put some real estate between the Balance and the next model , now the Sypder.

The Balance is an awesome choice in the used market- much more readily available in Europe than in NA.
 

Kcin

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#54
looks like a simple question, but this is complex....I will try to answer:

1.) FR launched the FR64
it is said, that the bearing has higher tolerance in the beginning, steel version, too my knowledge only available in silver, only heavy counterweight

2.) FR64s
high performance version of FR64, solid steel, available in silver and black (very rare), heavy counterweight, critical for Carts, which needs a damped arm (like SPU)

3.) FR64s silver
FR64s with silver inner tonearm wire (silver sticker on tonearm and box), sometimes shipped with silver tonearm cable as well, in most markets the FR silver tonearm wire was an update option

4.) FR64 fx
new generation of FR64, mix of materials, higher damping, different anti skating, minor change in geometry, available in black and silver (rare), light counterweight, heavy counterweight ist option, critical for carts, which need a more dynamic and open tonearm (like some Koetsu)

5.) FR64 fx silver
FR64fx with silver inner tonearm wire (silver sticker on tonearm and box), sometimes shipped with silver tonearm cable as well, in most markets the FR silver tonearm wire was an update option


All arms do benefit from N-60 heavy fixing Nut or B-60 heavy VTA lifter!


I prefer for the most carts the FR64s or FR64s silver.

Marketprice for FR64s ist mostly $500 above FR64fx, silver wire version is again higher in value.
@shakti,

To get this thread back on topic, if you were presented with the opportunity to buy a f64s with silver wire would you buy it today at fair market price?

Thanks,
 

tima

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#55
Micro, do you know the differences between Agat Ruby and the Purple Heart? Asking because I preferred the Purple Heart to Atlas, Airtight Supreme, Zyx Omega, and Allnic Puritas (the owner has the same preference). Will describe system in detail later but interested in Kisekis the moment hence the question.
I did not know you heard the Puritas. How did you find it?
 

bonzo75

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#56
I did not know you heard the Puritas. How did you find it?
It is nice, but not special. Both the atlas and the kiseki were better in that system through the Allnic 5000 phono. The other also said the Puritas is tough to set up to get it to sound tonally nice, and a nice tone is what it had, though kiseki was better. Both kiseki and the Lyra had better bass and dynamics, with Lyra as always presenting the most information
 
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#57
(...) Kisekis were very colored cartridges don't think you'll be getting into them for long term listening, good thing is that there's always someone who'd like to try one and are easy to resell.

david
Yes, the Agaat is colored - comparing it to the van den Hul shows it. Some aspects of music - drive, bass punch, voice fullness and sweetness are highlighted with this cartridge. Probably I would not use it for chamber music or most of my listening - but for this listening I use the Vivaldi. :) But this coloration is really great with some types of music! IMHO owning this type of cartridge needs a multi-arm turntable.
 
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#58
Can some knowledge person explain what are the main differences (technically and subjectively) between a stainless steel finish FR64s and a black FR64fx?
I have extensive experience with Ikeda san’s arms.
The effective mass is the main technical difference - the S being heavy and the fx being medium.
Subjectively the AL tube of the fx has a sonic signiture which, once identified, is hard not to notice all the time. Same with the later Ikeda branded arms. That said the fx is a very good arm for medium to higher compliace carts. Don’t try to swing a Koetsu on it or other lower compliance carts. The FR66s on the other hand defies theory in being able to swing anything well despite its high effective mass. This is unfortunatly not true for the FR64s where it is best to stay with low complinace carts. All excellent arms albiet in the appropriate context. IMHO, FWIW, YMMV
 

Kcin

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#59
I did not know you heard the Puritas. How did you find it?
I have heard the Puritas . IMO it is dynamically compromised. It really shows through when you compare it to another cartridge ... we had the opportunity to listen to it against the Lyra Etna SL.
 

bonzo75

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#60
I have heard the Puritas . IMO it is dynamically compromised. It really shows through when you compare it to another cartridge ... we had the opportunity to listen to it against the Lyra Etna SL.
I agree
 

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