Femto NVME SSD, test version

MarcelNL

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Mar 15, 2021
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Since a few weeks I am using a test version of what I consider a kind-of special NVME SSD in my project audio server (Ryzen 9 based) and I wanted to make folks aware that there likely may be a great alternative to Intel Optane as the data coming off it sounds much more on point than with anything else I've used.

Darkforce is working on a SSD using standard NAND chips, but used in different way so it's closer to SLC NAND, adding a femto clock plus external power option. Comparing between external SSD on a LPSU, internally powered Samsung Evo plus and this femto SSD makes it pretty clear that the femto SSD outperforms the other contestants hands down and by quite a bit!

Only drawback I see is size, as using 3D NAND in a SLC NAND way lowers its density (a 1 Tb disc ends up as a 300 something Gb disc), price, I did not ask.....but expect a serious price tag. I expect it'll be worth it to me....it's that good, and I have heard Optane and liked it.

I have no relation whatsoever with Darkforce, and consider myself lucky to be able to test fly this disk, for me this is a sure winner that hopefully makes it!
 

Tubeman66

Well-Known Member
Mar 31, 2019
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I have been testing this SSD for a couple of months now and it beats everything from CF-card to SSD of all kinds,
The important thing is that the m.2 slot goes directly to the CPU on the motherboard, and that you use an LPS ,.
It simply sounds natural and good !!

it is not cheap but clearly worth the price,
but you avoid the cost of a good SATA cable.

More to read here
NVMe SSD designed for audiophiles - Disk Storage / Music Library Storage - Audiophile Style


"I have no relation whatsoever with Darkforce, and consider myself lucky to be able to use this disk, for me this is a sure winner that hopefully makes it!"
 
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iain

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Jul 23, 2018
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Thanks both. Are you using the device for OS and or audio files?
 

MarcelNL

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Mar 15, 2021
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I did not yet install the OS on the femto SSD, so I suspect/expect a small gain in SQ is possible as loading files to RAM from the femto disc produces better SQ than doing the same from a regular NMVME SSD.
(installing Daphile is a bit of a bother as there is no way to store settings...I may just have to clone the regular NVME to the femto drive...)
 
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MarcelNL

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I will be messing with my passive cooling for the server build, followed by the PSU...loading the OS on the NVME is next unless passive cooling works tonight without glitches....otherwise it'll have to wait beciase I probably need to break in the Linear plus ATX for quite a while before being able to isolate the effect of having the OS on the femto NVME.
 

K3RMIT

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Sep 4, 2020
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I have wanted to try an exsternal lps for my m 2. Drives but could not find an adapter to use. can you post a link to one ?
please
 

MarcelNL

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Mar 15, 2021
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a regular NVME is not made to accept external power, like this femto NVME card (has a 5.2mm Jack connector and toggle switch to select external or internal power).
There are PCIe cards with a Molex connector for external power, not sure if they exist for M2 slots...lon time ago I found a suitable M2 to PCIE riser card for my JCat USB outpur at D-Link and they may have something for this too, beware their catalogue is HUGE, and their customer support non-existant so you are on your own.
 

rsrzr

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Jun 22, 2017
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You know this thread is bogus, right? You will not be able to hear any difference of sound quality between a HDD/SSD/NVMe device.
How can you? Each of these devices are storage mediums and the data read from these devices has to be placed in computer ram before sending it out on any port. So you are actually stating that data written to different areas of ram sound different?
People need to realize whet the difference is between a SSD and a NVMe device, and it isn't sound quality, its a bus issue (sata vs. pcie) and the command set differences for performance upgrades. Music files don't need the performance a SSD/NVMe device since they are so small unless you are streaming to 1000 endpoints simultaneously. I argued with a vendor at a show 10 years ago because he was telling everybody that this certain disk drive sounded better than all others, and when I told him the facts above and what my job was, and the current drive he was using was no longer being made, he looked foolish.
 

MarcelNL

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Mar 15, 2021
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You know this thread is bogus, right? You will not be able to hear any difference of sound quality between a HDD/SSD/NVMe device.
How can you? Each of these devices are storage mediums and the data read from these devices has to be placed in computer ram before sending it out on any port. So you are actually stating that data written to different areas of ram sound different?
People need to realize whet the difference is between a SSD and a NVMe device, and it isn't sound quality, its a bus issue (sata vs. pcie) and the command set differences for performance upgrades. Music files don't need the performance a SSD/NVMe device since they are so small unless you are streaming to 1000 endpoints simultaneously. I argued with a vendor at a show 10 years ago because he was telling everybody that this certain disk drive sounded better than all others, and when I told him the facts above and what my job was, and the current drive he was using was no longer being made, he looked foolish.
Thank you for explaining that you will not hear a difference because you know it is impossible.
 
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Tubeman66

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Mar 31, 2019
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You know this thread is bogus, right? You will not be able to hear any difference of sound quality between a HDD/SSD/NVMe device.
How can you? Each of these devices are storage mediums and the data read from these devices has to be placed in computer ram before sending it out on any port. So you are actually stating that data written to different areas of ram sound different?
People need to realize whet the difference is between a SSD and a NVMe device, and it isn't sound quality, its a bus issue (sata vs. pcie) and the command set differences for performance upgrades. Music files don't need the performance a SSD/NVMe device since they are so small unless you are streaming to 1000 endpoints simultaneously. I argued with a vendor at a show 10 years ago because he was telling everybody that this certain disk drive sounded better than all others, and when I told him the facts above and what my job was, and the current drive he was using was no longer being made, he looked foolish.
you are just jealous
 

darkfrank

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Oct 29, 2018
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Why not? Changing parts in PC just like changing components in a CD transport. The noise pattern are all different among the HDD/SSD and NVME.

Everything matters.
 

MarcelNL

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Mar 15, 2021
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I am nearing completion of the server build and did finally install the OS on the femto NVME SSD, something I should have done much earlier as the effect is bigger than just playing files from it!
 

rsrzr

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2017
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What "effect" are you talking about?
"you are just jealous": of what? because you have name ssd? I have had these (actually enterprise grade, not the units you buy online or thru Best Buy) over 6 years ago. I have documents on enterprise vendors websites on how to implement and tune million $$$ servers using SSD/NVMe devices. Nobody does this kind of work in the audio industry because it would be overkill.
 

MarcelNL

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Mar 15, 2021
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I'm happy to hear that you were first and have the documentation, why not share a bit of info so we can see if we can hear any difference?
 

Tubeman66

Well-Known Member
Mar 31, 2019
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Sweden
Don't feed the troll,
if you read between the lines, You can clearly see tha he has no clue what he talking about
 
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kennyb123

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Nov 30, 2012
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Don't feed the troll,
if you read between the lines, You can clearly see tha he has no clue what he talking about
Exactly right.
 

MarcelNL

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Mar 15, 2021
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consider me naive ;-)

I just wonder how a troll can frequent a forum for so long without getting wiser or banned?
 

kennyb123

Well-Known Member
Nov 30, 2012
521
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Kirkland, WA
I just wonder how a troll can frequent a forum for so long without getting wiser or banned?
Trolls are incapable of getting wiser. Most have an "unrealistic sense of superiority, characterized by a sustained view of one's self as better than others, which is expressed by disdainfully criticising them, overinflating one's own capability and belittling them as inferior".

The quoted text came from wikipedia's definition of grandiosity but I think it describes the actions of most trolls quite well.
 
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hilleli

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Apr 25, 2022
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Wow, you did a great job. For the Mac, you'll need to reformat the drive before using it because it'll be read-only on the Mac, which means you won't be able to copy or move data to the drive. That's the only thing I can say on the subject.
Although I'd also suggest copying all the data before formatting it. I had a silly situation where I wanted to change the format of a flash drive and had to format it to do so. Unfortunately, I only remembered the data when I started the process. Fortunately, the professionals at data recovery near me were able to recover everything.
 
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rsrzr

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2017
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Too bad somebody can throw a few terms around and the gullible audiophiles buy into this. You know, there have been computers that use m.2 nvme for their boot drive for years, this is nothing new. Look at the apple MacBook Air computers. You have to ask why the OP is using SLC not MLC, TLC, 3D nand or others for their product? Why do you think you need to add a femto clock to any disk? Have you ever had syncing errors where data has arrived sooner or later than requested? Can you imagine if your computer didn’t have clocking already in place so your data isn’t scattered to your app in random order.
Go for it, I’m sure people will start to think that their music streamers and computers are streaming randomized data all over the place. You just need a femto clock to sync back your data
 

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