Evolution Acoustics MMMicroOne loudspeakers

[stereo]

I've had a dealer attack a product he carried just to sell me another one he carried. Top that! LOL!

He probably was making a higher margin on the second one ;-)

 

[rhbblb1]

I did not plan to get involved in this discussion, but....

In my dedicated, acoustically designed room, I had the EA MicroOne next to the Magico Q5 and switched back and forth for direct comparison. I also measured the frequency response of the speakers. The good news for the EA was that it had a very good low frequency response for a small speaker. However, there was no comparison about the sound quality. The soundstage for the EA was smaller than the Magico. More importantly, the Magico was miles ahead in transparancy. There was such a dramatic difference that the EA sounded severly colored, especially on vocals. I realize that this discussion has been comparing the EA MicroOne to the Magico Q1 and Q7, but I can tell you that the EA MicroOne is not in the same league as the Magico Q5. The owner of the EA agreed, but was still happy with his purchase, although he is already talking about upgrading.

 

[asiufy]

Do we know who's the enlightened person that purchases a $160k speaker, and trades it in for a $5k one?


alexandre

 

[DaveyF]

Do we know who's the enlightened person that purchases a $160k speaker, and trades it in for a $5k one?


alexandre

I was thinking the same thing, BUT do we really need to go there?

 

[andromedaaudio]

Where is philip ??

 

[phillipK]

Where is philip ??

Right here, in shock.
It is a lose-lose situation for me since Steve has already decided my fate (Not to mention my identity). I find the rules here a bit uneven when it comes to Magico, so I am not really inclined to participate right now.
BTW, there can be several reasons to why posts are done via proxy servers. For example, if you work for an NGO and travel a lot, all your communication with the outside world are done via proxy servers.

 

[asiufy]

I was thinking the same thing, BUT do we really need to go there?

Oh yes, we do!
I realise there's no accounting for taste, but still, it'd be fun to read his/her take on how superior the $5k monitors were to the 360kg behemoth. Or what a great deal he got.

And I'm sure this situation with phillipK could be sorted with a quick phone call. I understand Steve is just doing his "job", which is to keep the forum free from fake posters with hidden agendas.


alexandre

 

[Steve Williams]

Right here, in shock.
It is a lose-lose situation for me since Steve has already decided my fate (Not to mention my identity). I find the rules here a bit uneven when it comes to Magico, so I am not really inclined to participate right now.
BTW, there can be several reasons to why posts are done via proxy servers. For example, if you work for an NGO and travel a lot, all your communication with the outside world are done via proxy servers.

Phillip

I must tell you in all honesty that when a new member joins their data is always checked to eliminate the possibility of the member being a spammer. Rarely if ever do we find anyone using a proxy server. Now checking your registration I will go one step further per the suggestions of "ack". I re-investigated your registered IP addresses and every one uses a TOR network so even though I cannot prove my suspicions, I will go so far as to bet that if you aren't said person my guess would be that you are connected with Magico.

Do I treat Magico differently than any of our other manufacturers....NO. We have a great deal of respect for our member manufacturers as they have so much to contribute

Finally, it is no secret that Mr. AW has pulled the same trick on other fora such as Audiogon,TAS etc so it wouldn't surprise me if the same thing is going on here

Ack I agree with you that such anonymity networks should be a violation of out TOS and I will take this back to our team and legal consultants and if we then include this as part of our TOS, PhillipK's IP address(es) that he uses to log in will continue to be verified and if a TOR network is used his membership will be revoked

Now back OT

 

[JackD201]

He probably was making a higher margin on the second one ;-)

Yeah, I figured as much. A real class act eh? I never went back and that was in the mid 90s.

 

[lapaix]

And if?

Do we know who's the enlightened person that purchases a $160k speaker, and trades it in for a $5k one?


alexandre

And if that person also simultaneously ordered EA MM7's. What about that?

 

[ack]

And if that person also simultaneously ordered EA MM7's. What about that?

This is another claim that has been made in the past, here and elsewhere... But the credibility of those making the claim is so low that, at this point, who cares - people sell and trade all kinds of stuff. I have also posted other possible scenarios on audiogon... no need to repeat them here.

 

[asiufy]

And if that person also simultaneously ordered EA MM7's. What about that?

It's possible. But I remember Jonathan claiming otherwise...
Still, it'd be great to hear from this person.
I have never heard an MM7, but it'll have to be a whole lot better than the MM3 to beat a Q7. And the MM3 is a damn fine speaker to begin with!


alexandre

 

[mep]

This thread is almost devolving into cloak and dagger stuff. All we need is a body to turn up somewhere under mysterious circumstances and we will have a movie and a book on our hands. We have the mysterious PhillipK who is alleged to be Alon Wolf masquerading as a sheep in his Wolf clothing. We have people who have traded in their Q7 speakers after hearing a pair of MMMOneMicro speakers which infers a $2500 speaker can kick ass on a $165K speaker. We have JTinn trying to sell the pair of Q7 speakers for below dealer cost which no one wants to bite on which raises suspicions about Magico speakers and whether or not JTinn is actually selling them or using them as a marketing tool to beat up on Magico. To JTinn's credit, he has asked for people to call his bluff and buy the speakers in order to show he really will sell them.

RMAF 2011 was the very first high-end show that I attended. I arrived on Thursday and hung out with Steve Williams for the duration of the show. We went to JTinn's room on Thursday night as JTinn was setting up his gear for the show. JTinn was very gracious and he is one of those kind of guys that makes you feel he has known you forever. When JTinn broke for dinner, he invited me to come along which I appreciated. However, I had arrived in Colorado fairly late and I had eaten dinner after I arrived so I declined. I was able to stay in JTinn's room and hang out with Mike Spitz and listen to some 30 ips master tapes on the tricked out Ampex ATR-102 that Mike had brought to the show. The system was Dart electronics and the MMMicroOne speakers. That was about $100K of electronics feeding a pair of $2500 speakers. I don't know how much the speaker cables cost that JTinn used, but I'm sure they were way more than the MMMicroOne speakers. And yes, when you hear a $15K tape machine playing 30 ips master tapes through $100K of electronics into the MMMicroOnes, they sound really damn good. And I'm not inferring that they wouldn't sound great if they were played through some cheap NAD gear. I just know what I heard them played through.

Louis Armstrong playing and singing St. James Infirmary from the 30 ips tape has to be heard to be believed. It was awesome. The next day when Steve and I were in the Magico room where Alon was playing tape through his Q1 speakers, I was mightily impressed with what a small pair of stand-mounted two-way speakers could do in terms of soundstage size and bass performance. At the time, it never dawned on me to compare the Q1 speakers to the MMMicroOne speakers if for no other reason than I didn't think it was a fair comparison. It was only after coming back to JTinn's room because I wanted to hear his setup again that I heard people in the room comparing the MMMicroOne speakers to the Q1 and saying they thought the EA speakers were better. I never shared that opinion and Steve can chime in (or not) with his opinion. I'm pretty sure that even if I was blinded to the cost of the two speakers, it wouldn't have changed my feelings.

Are the MMMicroOne speakers damn good sounding speakers? Yes, they are. However, $2500 only buys you so much with regards to soundstage size and accurate low bass. If I could afford to buy a new pair of Q1 speakers would I seriously consider the MMMicroOne speakers instead? No, I wouldn't. Are the Q1 speakers 10x+ better speakers than the MMMicroOne speakers? No, they are not. We all know that in this hobby that the percentages of improvement in quality are not linear in relation to the money you have to spend to achieve them.

The bottom line is that people need to listen for themselves and form their own opinions and not rely on hucksters real or perceived who may have an agenda. I have no agenda. I don't own EA or Magico speakers and I'm not invested or affiliated with either company and have received no benefits/discounts/products from either of them. And my opinion could be 180 out from yours if you heard both products side by side.

 

[jtinn]

This is another claim that has been made in the past, here and elsewhere... But the credibility of those making the claim is so low that, at this point, who cares - people sell and trade all kinds of stuff. I have also posted other possible scenarios on audiogon... no need to repeat them here.

Ack: You can question my credibility all you want. I have a pair of Magico Q7 loudspeakers that were traded in to me after the owner listened to the MMMicroOnes. Are you saying the Magicos I own don't exist? Are you calling me a liar?

You are hiding behind a username with nothing to lose, taking pot shots at me because the truth does not suit you. So you decide you are going to question my credibility and suggest that I am a liar. You are not alone, others here are suggesting the same thing (all Magico owners, by the way, that magically showed up after AW was accused of hiding behind a fictitious account). You are all acting small minded and need to justify to yourselves that spending too much money for something was a worthy decision. Your decisions are made because the magazines, who are being paid A LOT of advertising dollars, are writing reviews that you actually believe.

Who spent the most money in advertising with The Absolute Sound this past year... Magico. Who got the TAS cover and a review calling it the "best speaker ever"? Who got product of the year in TAS? That is where you should question credibility. I am sure they did not want to disappoint their biggest advertiser. You think there is a correlation there?

Want to buy a pair of Magico Q7's cheap? You suggested previously in another forum that I am not really looking to sell the Magicos. Put your money where your mouth is.

 

[Bruce B]

Take this off-line guys. I've heard enough.

 

[microstrip]

Take this off-line guys. I've heard enough.

+1

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Take this off-line guys. I've heard enough.

i've invited Ack to call me to talk about this. he has not. he told me he only wants public discussion.

i've invited Stereo to email me privately. so far he has not.

truth has little to do with the intent of these guys. negativity is the objective which is not served with behind the scenes discussions.

honestly; i admit to telling Jonathan in the beginning that if he went down this road of publicising the trade-in of the Q7's that it would ignite a sh*t-storm that would just get everyone covered. which is how it has played out. i've stayed pretty much out of it even as my name has been dragged into it time and time again.

and then the Magico contingent went into big-time character assassination as their approach. forget any facts; just repeat the same false inferences and accusations enough times and some might accept it.

and some others just like a good dust-up and keep fanning the flames on multiple forums.

i'd love for it to go off-line.

+1.

i could give a rat's a*s about Evolution verses Magico. i just want to enjoy my music and the forums.

 

[Steve Williams]

I agree Mike. This is (last I looked) an EA thread so let's keep it at that. If there's further arguing we will be forced to close the thread and this isn't about EA or Magico but rather about good conduct and civility

 

[Steve Williams]

I never shared that opinion and Steve can chime in (or not) with his opinion. I'm pretty sure that even if I was blinded to the cost of the two speakers, it wouldn't have changed my feelings.

You and I both shared the same opinion. For $2500 the MMMicro one is killer but it's not a Q1. AS Mark says is the Q1 10X better because it costs 10X more, I doubt it

 

[ack]

The only other comment/suggestion I will make here is that the TOS may need to be modified to discourage or disallow manufacturers from ever speculating, criticizing or otherwise discussing or mentioning competing products and companies, like has been done in part in this thread. Manufacturers should strictly stick to their own products; otherwise, they lose credibility quickly. This suggestion is in line with the 'level playing field' discussed in this thread and others.