Esoteric N-05XD and Innuos Server

[ihmeyers]

Good afternoon all. I just received the Innuous Zenith SE server I bought second hand to pair with my N-05XD. It seemed to be that it should have been pretty straightforward - Innuos (running Sense app) DAC out to Esoteric USB in. Simple, in theory. In practice, I can't get it to work.

All of the firmware on both devices are current. The Zenith sends the stream, and the Esoteric seems to "see" it (USB light locks) but no audio and the Esoteric doesn't see the bitstream rate. Every track played shows 16/44 on the Esoteric display, even DSD. I can get it to work using streamer out ethernet into Esoteric ethernet in but it sounds awful because it's bring everything across the network. I know in theory it shouldn't sound that bad but I had the same issue with a couple of NAS devices connected to my network. Right now the Esoteric has a Samsung 2TB SSD attached which sounds really good although I don't think that's the best way to store my files.

Do any WBF members have any ideas? I've contacted both Innuos and Esoteric support trying to figure this out. Thanks much!

Ian

 

[vrac]

Not sure if this has any significance but the Innuos server is Linux OS based. Perhaps the Esoteric unit may have a compatibility issue with Linux?
I know that Esoteric works great with MAC and PC based servers. Good luck!

 

[ihmeyers]

Thanks. That dawned on me. You would think Esoteric DACs should be compatible with Linux servers. I think many (most?) standalone servers are Linux based.

I hope that's not the case or I have a large paperweight.

 

[treitz3]

FWIW, my experience with Esoteric is that the connections to the rest of gear is uber sensitive. Before giving up, try other connections/cables and do not use adapters at all for said cables.

Tom

 

[GSOphile]

Have you contacted Innuos? Checked out their user forum?

 

[ihmeyers]

FWIW, my experience with Esoteric is that the connections to the rest of gear is uber sensitive. Before giving up, try other connections/cables and do not use adapters at all for said cables.

Tom

Thanks. I have tried AQ Diamond USB and the cheap USB the unit comes with. I have one other USB cable I can try, made by Final Touch Audio. Another thought I had which might be dumb, is that maybe the outboard clock I'm using with the Esoteric (Cybershaft) is a problem when the Esoteric is only a DAC and not the streamer. I'll try taking that out of the equation too.

You'd think it wouldn't be this complicated. It's not like Innuos is some home brewed untested server. I have never heard of an issue using it. I'm surprised if it's problematic with Esoteric DACs that I haven't read anything about that on the internet.

 

[ihmeyers]

Have you contacted Innuos? Checked out their user forum?

I emailed them yesterday morning and they opened up a ticket on the issue. I suspect I'll hear back tomorrow given that's it's the weekend.

 

[ihmeyers]

Unfortunately, neither switching back to the internal clock or swapping out to an FTA USB cable helped. Something about the handshake/data stream that's not quite right. The USB light doesn't flash which means the Esoteric sees something but there's no audio and the bitrate always reads 16/44 which is the default if there's no incoming stream. Again, you'd think if this were a known issue with Innuos or Linux servers there'd be reports of it. The dealer I got the Innuos from had never heard of this and sent an e-mail to both Innuos and Esoteric about this. Fingers crossed. Thanks all for the suggestions.

 

[ihmeyers]

After reading whatever I could find I am reasonably convinced that Esoteric devices won't play directly from Linux servers. I think they will if the server is a Roon endpoint but that kind of defeats the purpose for me.

1. I'm not a fan of Roon (I have it on another server I use for less critical streaming appliances in my house).

2. I would need a 2nd Roon license and it's kind of clunky to use Roon that way and involves turning on one server and turning off another when accessing Roon. In other words the control software would have to which server you're trying to access to play music. I've had two servers/two licenses previously and even ignoring the 2X cost it was just a PITA. The fact that I don't think it sounds as good as the Soundstream app (at least it didn't on my Esoteric) kind of makes that untenable for me.

If I'm correct about Esoteric/Linux I don't know what the hell I'm going to do with the server I just bought.

 

[speakerlust]

I do not believe Linux OS should be an issue for the Esoteric. I have an Antipodes K50 G4 (Linux OS) that is connected to an Esoteric K-01XD SE via USB without issue. With Antipodes web managed dashboard, I do have to select what type of output and what server/player software configuration I want to utilize. With the K-01XD SE I typically use Squeeze, Roon with Squeeze player, or Roon. I will not get sound unless I select USB Audio-TEAC on my web dashboard for Audio Output. That option will not show if USB cable is connected after both Antipodes and Esoteric are turned on and also requires USB selection on the Esoteric. If I turn off my Esoteric to use other DAC in system, I will need to refresh my Antipodes dashboard after turning on the Esoteric again for the USB option again to become available. I do not hot swap cables, and have in the past with other computers and devices found USB at times to be tricky recognizing/connecting. I am not familiar with the operating instructions for your Innuos or Sense. You might want to try rebooting both the Innuos and Esoteric which may be of benefit for proper clean USB connection. You may also want to check if your Innuos requires you select the desired output connection as well.

Lumin has some professional connection with Esoteric, not apparently on the core firmware side, but there is an option for a player app with Esoteric that uses an Esoteric app, that I believe is supported with Lumin. I also have a Lumin X1 and prefer the Lumin app for playback over Roon. It does require me to have MinimServer also running on my Antipodes for it to find and play my stored music on my Antipodes as well as stream to it--I use Qobuz. My K-01XD SE can not use the Esoteric similar app, since it is not a streamer. I stream to it from my Antipodes.

Wish I could be of more help.

 

[ihmeyers]

Thank you. That IS a lot of help.

I use the Esoteric app now (Soundstream) which is the Lumin app with a different skin. Lumin developed the streaming side of the Esoteric player. I have read where Roon running on the Zenith into the Esoteric will work. I will try connecting with everything off again and see if that makes a difference. I can see the TEAC output on the Innuos Sense app and it is outputting a stream to the Esoteric which is why the N-05XD doesn't blink on the USB input. The issue is it's not a complete handshake. Esoteric sees enough to think it's connected but can't really read the datastream right which is why there is no audio and why the bitrate can't be identified correctly (always shows as 16/44 on the Esoteric screen).

Now why in 2025 this type of thing should still be an issue??? Incredibly frustrating and the kind of thing that IMO limits any growth in our hobby. It's why my wife stores all of music in the cloud and just listens on earbuds connected to her iphone. She acknowledges how much better my system sounds but says it's just not worth the trouble for her.

 

[speakerlust]

I am guessing that Soundstream is similar to the Lumin App in options. If so, you need to select your Music Library in the app Settings. Mine is set to MinimServer (K50 Server). MinimServer is an option to use with Antipodes and the software is No Charge. It can be enabled with either Roon or Squeeze also enabled. Roon and Squeeze servers cannot be enabled at the same time though.

On my Lumin App, in initial Settings you have Select a LUMIN Player. In my case, only LUMIN X1 is shown, and for your Esoteric app, probably just N-05XD. For me, I then go to Player Options just under the Select Player. There are multiple options. One that would be important to you is to make sure Roon Ready is selected as On. For me, I also need to select which Output option for my X1--Analog, SPDIF, or USB, with only one being avaialble to use at a time. Lastly on my app, there is an option for Analog Audio Re-Sampling. Mine is set to Off, but if I select Custom, another menu opens below it for how my unit will process and play DSD and PCM various input rates.

Good Luck

 

[ihmeyers]

Thanks again.

Soundstream is exactly the same as the Lumin app because Esoteric licenses the software/hardware from Lumin. There are options for both player and music library. I can't use the Soundstream app with the Innuos only if I use a network library or in my case an external DSD. If I put the Innuos online Soundstream can see the server but then files play over the network which is much inferior to a local connection (USB A-C cable connecting Samsung SSD). Before I had the Innuos I tried streaming to the Esoteric in multiple ways:

1. Via Roon from a server in other room.
2. From a NAS drive connected to my switch
3. From a Lumin drive connected to my switch

They all sounded much worse than the Samsung SSD. Why I'm not sure because other people use NAS to stream to their DAC and it sounds fine. Mine was night and day inferior. The reason I bought the Innuos was two-fold:

1. I thought that a server would sound better connected to the Esoteric than an SSD (maybe it would, maybe it wouldn't)
2. I've thought about getting a DCS which can be connected via USB to an Innuous but will NOT access an SSD (only a 32gb flash drive). I figured this way I'm set if I go the DCS route. I never considered that USB from the Innuos to the Esoteric would be difficult to implement.

I could try Roon on the Innuos and see how that goes. The Zenith is a Roon endpoint and the Esoteric is Roon ready. Will Roon sound any better via a direct (USB) connection to the Esoteric than it did pulling files via the network from the server in the other room? Maybe. I just know I had people over previously to A/B SSD drive into the Esoteric (and Soundstream) vs Roon over the network and it wasn't close.

I really appreciate the dialog. I know just enough about this to be dangerous. I like the convenience digital from a server/hard drive provides but the network configurations can be a PITA.