Endgame monoblock amp choice

[BruceD]

Unexpectedly, stumbled upon a pair of Cello Performance II mono's and here they stand. Very different kind of sound.

I owned them--paired with and Wilson Watt Pups then Grand Slamm V1's -- smooth as silk but no Drive made for a rather bland boring presentation sadly-removed from the fold.
Pity with all the hoopla at the time --Choke Supplies /etc I expected maybe too much--ah well trust you have better luck than I did!

BruceD

 

[martin778]

Smooth as butter and laid back, agreed.
Tightest bass I've ever heard coming out of an amp, almost weird though. Reminds me of a Crown K2.

 

[infinitely baffled]

My good mate and modded Duettas owner swears by Parasound Halo JC-1 amps. Easily trounced the Analog Domain Isis he was using previously. He's a member here, I've suggested he chips in.

Isn't the Analogue Domain Isis an integrated amp?
Doesn't seem a fair comparison

 

[Colekat]

Congrats on the Divas
I'm a huge Apogee fan myself.
You should IMHO/IME add Lamm M1.x or M2.x add to your shortlist.

… looking for end all amps for difficult speakers to drive … Check out EMM MTRX1s … they sound amazing and are stable to 1/2 ohm .

 

[gleeds]

Martin, I came across the article written by Christian Luttner, lead reviewer of Hi-fi Advice in the Netherlands, whom I follow and believe has a very keen ear. I skimmed the article syndicated on Stereo Times, and it appears to contain a treasure trove of information about how Christian got the best from his Diva's.

APOGEE ACOUSTICS DIVA

Compared to 2 pairs of Duetta Signature (Refurbished and Original) With the purchase of these refurbished Divas I have almost come to the end of my investigations for the Apogee Listening Sessions. The refurbished Duettas really are fabulous, but have some flaws that I hoped to address with the...

v2.stereotimes.com

He used Roland monoblocks which may be a good option.

One recommendation for the combination of musicality and stability power would not be the Analog Domain muscle amps but rather the amplifier-only version in bridged mode. Here are the specifications: Naturally, I would call the owner Angel Despatov to discuss how the Isis performs into loads below 4ohms.

Power output	8 ohm, sine wave, rms 4 ohm, sine wave, rms 8 ohm, bridged, music material	250W 400W 500W
Power output	8 ohm, sine wave, rms	250W
	4 ohm, sine wave, rms	400W
	8 ohm, bridged, music material	500W
	4 ohm, bridged, music material	1000W
Damping factor	1kHz, 4ohm load, single-ended	>1000
	1kHz, 4ohm, bridged mode	>500

 

[martin778]

Hi gleeds, thanks for the info. I believe Chrstiaan's last name was Punter, unless there is another Christiaan working for them
I've been looking at Jeff Rowlands but immediately gave up the idea when I noticed they are Class D which might be a nightmare to get repaired if something goes wrong. I also considered the old 7 MK3 mono's but folks wrote on forums that they had resin potted modules inside which are impossible to get (old Mark Levinson, anyone?).

He indeed 'fought' with the Divas for some time, as well as with some smaller ones. The black/red Duetta Sigs are changing hands again (3rd or 4th time since rebuild?) and seem to have gotten some wear from all that: CLICK also looks like someone took a massive loss on these, Henk's refurbs aren't cheap by any means.
They also fought with the crossovers and ultimately decided to go back to original, just a shame no one bothered to at least put the original ones in a nice box.
Where Christiaan's Diva's ended up, no idea but probably exported outside the Netherlands I guess.

 

[christoph]

Hi gleeds, thanks for the info. I believe Chrstiaan's last name was Punter, unless there is another Christiaan working for them
I've been looking at Jeff Rowlands but immediately gave up the idea when I noticed they are Class D which might be a nightmare to get repaired if something goes wrong. I also considered the old 7 MK3 mono's but folks wrote on forums that they had resin potted modules inside which are impossible to get (old Mark Levinson, anyone?).

He indeed 'fought' with the Divas for some time, as well as with some smaller ones. The black/red Duetta Sigs are changing hands again (3rd or 4th time since rebuild?) and seem to have gotten some wear from all that: CLICK also looks like someone took a massive loss on these, Henk's refurbs aren't cheap by any means.
They also fought with the crossovers and ultimately decided to go back to original, just a shame no one bothered to at least put the original ones in a nice box.
Where Christiaan's Diva's ended up, no idea but probably exported outside the Netherlands I guess.

After Henk rebuilt those, I would buy them in a heartbeat because Henk's work is sublime.
Unfortunately I just got a NO from my wife myself (unless I sell a pair of my other speakers, but which one?)

If someone is looking for a pair of Duettas, this would be an excellent chance!
Unbelievably high sonic value per cost.
Maybe for @bonzo75

 

[Fred Crane]

I'm looking for my 'endgame' monoblocks (would work best with my cabling) to power big Apogees but I'm at the point of choosing by eye rather than by ears thinking there aren't many (if any) truly bad amps in the €25k used market.
Repairability and reliability are very important, speaking from experience with expensive audio gear.

I especially look for good MF/HF resolution and punchy, tight lows. I have 2 preamps available a Gryphon Zena and No.326s but will be keeping the Gryphon

What would you think about the following?

- McIntosh MC1.25kW, 'legendary' brand but seems to have a lot of strongly biased users, on both sides. Can be had way under the budget and almost new so should be hassle free
- Pass X600.8, still pretty young, shouldn't need servicing anytime soon, well reviewed
- D'Agostino M550's, 3 years old, gorgeous looks however a bit disappointing on the inside
- MSB M203, unknown serviceability, no option to listen before buying.
- Big Krells, probably all well due for a recap?

I'd rather not want to buy pure class A gear as every amp class A I've bought in the past was already crusty as a sin (caps/solder joints) and they got scorching hot.

View attachment 95017

Are we assuming the same specs as were present in the original model? (87d and 3 ohm)?

 

[bonzo75]

Hi gleeds, thanks for the info. I believe Chrstiaan's last name was Punter, unless there is another Christiaan working for them
I've been looking at Jeff Rowlands but immediately gave up the idea when I noticed they are Class D which might be a nightmare to get repaired if something goes wrong. I also considered the old 7 MK3 mono's but folks wrote on forums that they had resin potted modules inside which are impossible to get (old Mark Levinson, anyone?).

He indeed 'fought' with the Divas for some time, as well as with some smaller ones. The black/red Duetta Sigs are changing hands again (3rd or 4th time since rebuild?) and seem to have gotten some wear from all that: CLICK also looks like someone took a massive loss on these, Henk's refurbs aren't cheap by any means.
They also fought with the crossovers and ultimately decided to go back to original, just a shame no one bothered to at least put the original ones in a nice box.
Where Christiaan's Diva's ended up, no idea but probably exported outside the Netherlands I guess.

henk's basic refurbed duetta sig used to cost 7k Euros. So it's not that bad. His Scintilla used to be 11k and Diva 12k, FR 18k.

 

[Audire]

I’m listening to some demo Westminster Labs REIs monos right now. They are Class A with less heat than my Pass 260.8s. they sound exceptional. you can bridge a second set and even get more Class A goodness.

I’m going to be demoing Vitus near the end of this week - I hope. That may be another brand you desire to audition. I’m considering their SM - 103 monos.

 

[martin778]

henk's basic refurbed duetta sig used to cost 7k Euros. So it's not that bad. His Scintilla used to be 11k and Diva 12k, FR 18k.

Current refurb quote was 9k for just the body and panels for the Diva, not including the speakers.
In all honesty if Henk was selling refurbished FR's for 18k I'd have gotten them in a heartbeat rather than re-refurbing the Diva's but what am I supposed to do with 3 pair of Apogees? Folks here already complain about the Diva in the living room...

 

[Fred Crane]

I've heard a heavily modded Croft 3 OTL with PL519's and it had the purest midrange I heard to this day but I don't see it delivering current to 2-4 Ohm Apogees. Maybe big Atma Sphers would cut it but we're talking 48+ tubes in total, that's a no-go. Have to admit that MA-2's do look amazing ;-)

You can still get Zero Formers to place after your big Atma-Spheres...that was all the rage for a period with Apogees and Soundlabs. Some would say that placing an autoformer in front of the speaker defeated the purpose of running an OTL circuit, however, user approval was very high. You can also use the amps to roast weenies...gives you that outdoor feeling in the relative safety of your listening room.

You've had a plethora of fine suggestions. Is there one that will nose out the others in the world of big monos? Boy, that's tough to determine. I just spent a few minutes perusing the usual suspects for used gear that fits your use and there were quite a few. If I were looking for a deal, definitely the monos that Gleeds mentioned. We used those in a speaker development project and everything he said was right on.

Given your preamp, I would add the Gryphon Colosseum. (There are a pair for sale on A-Gon.) Despite their power rating, (which is by comparison to some, meager) the actual power described by those who have used them with planers, is notable. I believe they're listed at 160 watts class a. That said, the reviews I've seen had them described into planers as a 10 out of 10 in the dynamics and bass categories. They are a dual mono stereo amp but can be used to great effect vertically bi-amped. Just another amp to add to the many. Good luck in your endeavor.

 

[gleeds]

Hi gleeds, thanks for the info. I believe Chrstiaan's last name was Punter, unless there is another Christiaan working for them
I've been looking at Jeff Rowlands but immediately gave up the idea when I noticed they are Class D which might be a nightmare to get repaired if something goes wrong. I also considered the old 7 MK3 mono's but folks wrote on forums that they had resin potted modules inside which are impossible to get (old Mark Levinson, anyone?).

He indeed 'fought' with the Divas for some time, as well as with some smaller ones. The black/red Duetta Sigs are changing hands again (3rd or 4th time since rebuild?) and seem to have gotten some wear from all that: CLICK also looks like someone took a massive loss on these, Henk's refurbs aren't cheap by any means.
They also fought with the crossovers and ultimately decided to go back to original, just a shame no one bothered to at least put the original ones in a nice box.
Where Christiaan's Diva's ended up, no idea but probably exported outside the Netherlands I guess.

You are quite right, Christian Punter is the correct name. Good luck in your search! I'm sure the end result will be worth the effort!

 

[heihei]

Set of Divas currently for sale in the UK. They're with Jon at Reality Audio for assessment - is a tempting proposition to see how they fair with the Heisenbergs!

 

[christoph]

Current refurb quote was 9k for just the body and panels for the Diva, not including the speakers.
In all honesty if Henk was selling refurbished FR's for 18k I'd have gotten them in a heartbeat rather than re-refurbing the Diva's but what am I supposed to do with 3 pair of Apogees? Folks here already complain about the Diva in the living room...

Which Apogees do have besides the Divas?
One can never have enough Apogees, btw.

 

[christoph]

And this is why Fransisco never sells his equipment !

I also don't want to sell any of my gear but then again, I don't try to and whine if no one buys

 

[christoph]

I can't place such a big single unit anywhere in the living room. With monoblocks I can try to hide them somewhere around the speakers ;-)

With Apogees properly set up (enough distance to the front wall), you can hide almost ANY amp BEHIND the Apogees

Maybe with the exception of the bigger "tower-style" amps like ML33 and some of the biggest VAC and VTL top models

But after older ML and tubes are out of the question anyways, you can surely hide your future amps BEHIND the Divas

 

[christoph]

Where Christiaan's Diva's ended up, no idea but probably exported outside the Netherlands I guess.

Those exact Divas are IMHO some of the most beautiful looking Apogees that Henk ever did
My ex-Scintillas being in the same realm

 

[christoph]

Smooth as butter and laid back, agreed.
Tightest bass I've ever heard coming out of an amp, almost weird though. Reminds me of a Crown K2.

How do you like those Cellos after some time with them now?

 

[christoph]

Set of Divas currently for sale in the UK. They're with Jon at Reality Audio for assessment - is a tempting proposition to see how they fair with the Heisenbergs!

At the very least, you should give them a listen with your Heisenbergs

Maybe, you can even make some decent money should you decide to swap