Einstein Silver Bullet OTL Mk. II Driving Wilson Audio Alexx

Ron Resnick

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Jan 25, 2015
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#21
OTL's are great amplifiers when used in the adequate system. They are not neutral - but on the opposite side of your VTL's.

. . .
By "on the opposite side of the VTLs" are you agreeing with me that the OTLs exhibit a kind of leanness -- almost like a MartinLogan CLS version of a tube amplifier (not bright, but in some way lean-sounding)?
 
Mar 26, 2014
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#22
My experience with OTL may not be at the level of some of the other amps mentioned, but I think I have a handle on them, and Ron, I think you have a handle on them too. Crystalline clarity, a beguiling openness, rhythmic snap, timbral accuracy, a "listen-through" presentation, lots and lots to enjoy. But only with the right speakers, and even then there's not a whole lot of the fleshed-out tubey mids that all that heat suggests. If your heart is in SET, than perhaps OTL is only a distraction in the longer term, no matter how much I admire it.

Is there a system that can provide everything? I'm not sure. You pays your money, you makes your choice.
 
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Ron Resnick

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#23
Ron, those items listed in your point 3 - none of my favorite rooms except Mike's have them, including the more smaller/small budget favorite rooms, but that does not mean they should not be added or played with as it is all part of the hobby. It could be argued that you could have been happy with a much lesser TT or cartridge but you will choose to upgrade. Heck, one of my favorite rooms has a Denon CD player and a Nottingham Dais with Schick arm. That does not mean his Caeles with Schroeder arm will not work better.

As part of the hobby, one can choose to isolate their components, improve cabling and power supply, etc etc after the rest is in place, provided there are no negative effects. Of course ensuring there are no negative side effects is tough and expensive to do . If room and core components are finalized, cables, NCF outlets etc are fair game. Also, upgrading say, speakers, leads to a lot of cash outflow in one go while cash outflow for tweaks in many cases is easier to manage.
I largely agree. Never-ending tweaks in search of higher and higher levels of sonic excellence is almost a sub-hobby of our hobby.

My point simply was that it is not neccessary to drive oneself crazy with endless tweaking to achieve stunningly realistic reproduction and sound. Proper component matching and proper speaker to room matching and then perfect dial-in are more important.
 

Mike Lavigne

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Apr 25, 2010
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#24
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May 30, 2010
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Portugal
#25
By "on the opposite side of the VTLs" are you agreeing with me that the OTLs exhibit a kind of leanness -- almost like a MartinLogan CLS version of a tube amplifier (not bright, but in some way lean-sounding)?
We can not refer to OTL's as a general class - a Graaf will sound very different from an Atmasphere. Their sound characteristic will vary a lot with speaker impedance - they typically have high output impedance and can sound lean with speakers having impedance peaks in the low medium or bass zone. What some people consider "lean sound" is simply a rise in distortion due to the incapability of some OTLs to supply current. For example IMHO the M60 can sound lean in ESL63 and the MA1 or MA2 do not.

The preamplifier matching is also critical - IMHO the Atamsphere OTL's claim for tube preamplfiers, particularly the excellent sounding MP1.
 

Mike Lavigne

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Apr 25, 2010
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#26
Ron, those items listed in your point 3 - none of my favorite rooms except Mike's have them, including the more smaller/small budget favorite rooms, but that does not mean they should not be added or played with as it is all part of the hobby. It could be argued that you could have been happy with a much lesser TT or cartridge but you will choose to upgrade. Heck, one of my favorite rooms has a Denon CD player and a Nottingham Dais with Schick arm. That does not mean his Caeles with Schroeder arm will not work better.

As part of the hobby, one can choose to isolate their components, improve cabling and power supply, etc etc after the rest is in place, provided there are no negative effects. Of course ensuring there are no negative side effects is tough and expensive to do . If room and core components are finalized, cables, NCF outlets etc are fair game. Also, upgrading say, speakers, leads to a lot of cash outflow in one go while cash outflow for tweaks in many cases is easier to manage.
as I recall all your other favorite rooms either have horns or dipoles of some sort that interact with a room differently than my dynamic drivers. I'm sure that is not the only issue, but it's likely one key to understanding why my approach succeeds like those other 'tricky driver' approaches which minimize room interaction.....but then conversely seem to struggle with deep bass integration, or in some cases require extreme 'not ideal' amplification choices.
 
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#27
btw - his phono stage - Einstein The Turntable's Choice is the fastest most transparent phono stage I have ever heard.
Nice! Not common to hear comments re the Einstein TTC. I can't say you are right 'cause I've not heard all that many different phono stages, but I have been extremely happy with my dual-mono version TTC for several years—certainly not the weak link in my system. Even my dealer, when visiting, says he's not sure what he'd recommend to better it. I know Volkler has been working on a new phono stage for years but yet to be released.
 

KeithR

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May 7, 2010
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#28
We can not refer to OTL's as a general class - a Graaf will sound very different from an Atmasphere. Their sound characteristic will vary a lot with speaker impedance - they typically have high output impedance and can sound lean with speakers having impedance peaks in the low medium or bass zone. What some people consider "lean sound" is simply a rise in distortion due to the incapability of some OTLs to supply current. For example IMHO the M60 can sound lean in ESL63 and the MA1 or MA2 do not.

The preamplifier matching is also critical - IMHO the Atamsphere OTL's claim for tube preamplfiers, particularly the excellent sounding MP1.
Micro is right- for example Joule Electra was anything but lean.
 

spiritofmusic

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Jun 13, 2013
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#30
Ron, I get your point about how a system can be stellar w’out spending on tweaks.
You know how much you loved my system? Well, you would have been very complimentary too had you heard it on Day One in the new room, with stock 99cents power cords going into the domestic sockets, with no fuses, no Stacores, no balanced power etc.
I loved it too that day, and had I had to settle at that point I would not have been unhappy.
Far from it, it was at that time a quantum leap over my old room.
But I have to tell you, that every step along the way, from initially introducing balanced power/dedicated lines/Furutech duplexes, my chosen power cords with US plugs, upgraded cables, isolation platforms, audiophile fuses, and currently mods to my platforms, each change has truly upped the ante.
And I suspect strongly that would be the case in Danny’s room too.
Of course, he’s made a decision not to go down these paths, and should be respected for that, but I strongly believe the right choice of tweaks and system enhancements can really make a system truly sing.
But the room is everything too, and this must play the biggest part in Danny getting such a great sound.
 

Jazzhead

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Aug 26, 2012
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#31
Having had a pair here for the past year, I can endorse the many eulogies about these amps. They are lightening fast / very transparent / extended / tonally natural / musical. There is sufficient power to effortlessly drive my 88db / 6 ohm Wilson Benesch in a 5000 cubic ft room.
Would complex orchestral fare , be part of your listening with the Bernings ?
 

bonzo75

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Feb 26, 2014
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#32
Would complex orchestral fare , be part of your listening with the Bernings ?
Berning is very good one orchestral as everything is presented neat and clean, spacious, see through. Highs go on forever without getting bright. Where your Vitus will be stronger is midbass and full body. If the speaker does not require it, i.e. has midbass and full body with the Berning too, the Berning could be better overall. Depends on speaker to speaker. Berning is faster, like Spetcral, but with more decay
 
#33
My friend and dealer Maier Shadi of the Audio Salon in Santa Monica installed Danny Kaey's system. Here is a short video with Danny talking about the process. If you think that Maier only does this for audio reviewers and high end customers here is a story I love to tell, my friend Bob who lives in Culver City knows that I'm a serious audio lover and was asking me about affordable speakers. I gave him a few recommendations but also told him to just visit the Audio Salon, Maier will help you, he told me he already knew Maier because years earlier he had bought a $ 400 Dac from him and Maier came to his home to help him get it set up properly. That's service.

Here's a link to the video


https://vimeo.com/242449832
 

Ron Resnick

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Jan 25, 2015
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#34
That is a great story! Go Maier!
 

awsmone

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Apr 7, 2014
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#35
I will always remember my first encounter with OTL the atmasphere m1

The sound was so transparent and spooky real, clear as water

Never heard anything like it, didn’t have the money to buy at the time

6c33 are interesting for otl, was my understanding they require a fair amount of feedback to get the output impedance down unless you use a lot of them

Silver bullet has damping factor of approx 100 at 8 ohm

That’s would seem to represent a lot of feedback
 

Ron Resnick

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Jan 25, 2015
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#36
Do you remember if you found the OTL sound "lean" or not naturally warm in any way?
 

awsmone

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Apr 7, 2014
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#37
Do you remember if you found the OTL sound "lean" or not naturally warm in any way?
Hi Ron

Having had 2 6as7 amps at home they are on the clarity side of sound, but also seem to have neutral “ rightness “ to the sound which is not tiring
My friend has a 6as7 and preferred to his lamm ml2, though he won’t admit it

Having said that the 6c33 is a very different tube and known to have wonderful flesh on bone

However in otl with few tubes, I would worry about the feedback needed
Having said that I heard navison big otl with 6c33 on enormous horns and the sound was very flesh and not thin at all, these have 4 tubes if memory serves

They are going to release an 8 tube monoblocks

The difference may be the driver tube:-

The atmasphere and navison have 6sn7 drivers which r a very fleshy tube, though there are types ( 6sn7) that are more transparent
 

Ron Resnick

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Jan 25, 2015
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#38
Have you ever heard a Joule Electra amplifier?
 

awsmone

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Apr 7, 2014
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Canberra Australia
#39
No such luck

Have you heard of atmasphere novacron which is 6c33 based or qtron 80watt 6c33 otl
 

bonzo75

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Feb 26, 2014
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#40
So OTL (navison) on the horns... Did your friend prefer them to SETs he tried? I want to know particularly on horns
 

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