DXD or DSD256

[Mike Lavigne]

Hi Mike.
I am using the Aurender connected to the C1 with USB. I am not using the Ethernet option in the C1, it is supposed to be even better. I will upgrade later, but I am no hurry. And yes, the D1 with the CH link to the C1 is really outstanding as a CD/SACD drive. But I realize that I might be on a somewhat thin ice regarding my statement about DSD downloads and their quality. But when I play the DSD 128 downloaded files the display in the C1 reads DSD. Maybe someone with a better technical understanding than me about what exactly the C1 does with DSD can explain.

But I am quite happy as a non-technical person as well, the system sounds imo good .

JP

I would say that judging the C1 performance playing dsd files, based on all the feedback I have read, requires the Ethernet connection. it is said that that way consistently sounds better. will it be enough better to attain the optimal dsd file performance compared to a reference level dsd native dac? we don't know that. is it 'good enough' considering possibly superior PCM performance? maybe that is where things ultimately might end up. a trade-off.

right now; dsd verses PCM does typically involve a trade-off somewhere with almost every approach. you just have to choose the one you like.

 

[jep123]

I would say that judging the C1 performance playing dsd files, based on all the feedback I have read, requires the Ethernet connection. it is said that that way consistently sounds better. will it be enough better to attain the optimal dsd file performance compared to a reference level dsd native dac? we don't know that. is it 'good enough' considering possibly superior PCM performance? maybe that is where things ultimately might end up. a trade-off.

right now; dsd verses PCM does typically involve a trade-off somewhere with almost every approach. you just have to choose the one you like.

I agree on that .

JP

 

[hifial]

It seems that your DAC takes the incoming DSD and converts ( there is a DSP engine in your DAC that does this ) it to high rate PCM. So no, you are not getting to hear your DSD files in the fashion as they are intended.

 

[YashN]

I am using the Aurender connected to the C1 with USB. I am not using the Ethernet option in the C1, it is supposed to be even better. I will upgrade later, but I am no hurry. And yes, the D1 with the CH link to the C1 is really outstanding as a CD/SACD drive. But I realize that I might be on a somewhat thin ice regarding my statement about DSD downloads and their quality. But when I play the DSD 128 downloaded files the display in the C1 reads DSD. Maybe someone with a better technical understanding than me about what exactly the C1 does with DSD can explain.

I'm not too familiar with streamers, using my own server computer to play the files with Audirvana+ myself.

So what's the complete process here? You're downloading these DSD files, then somehow transferring them (how?) to the Aurender, and then this streams to your C1 DAC via USB?

So it's the Aurender's internal player which streams your file?

If it shows DSD at the DAC, it's encouraging.

 

[YashN]

It seems that your DAC takes the incoming DSD and converts ( there is a DSP engine in your DAC that does this ) it to high rate PCM. So no, you are not getting to hear your DSD files in the fashion as they are intended.

Yes, that's one potential area I'd investigate: it's much better to stream DSD natively to a native DSD DAC than perform any intermediate conversion to PCM along the chain, hence the original question I asked.

Hard to say though as I'm not familiar with either the Aurender nor the C1 with the link, but it's certainly something I would look into if DSD wasn't sounding good (provided the source is good too), and additionally if there's a need for re-clocking, galvanic isolation of the DAC or a Linear PSU or what not.

 

[YashN]

I would say that judging the C1 performance playing dsd files, based on all the feedback I have read, requires the Ethernet connection. it is said that that way consistently sounds better.

That would be a great thing to try.

 

[YashN]

This from a review:
CH Precision developed its own ‘CH Link’ allowing PCM up to 32bit, 768kHz, and one bit DSD to 5.6448MHz, as well as asynchronous USB to 24/192 PCM and 2.8224MHz DSD and asynchronous Ethernet to 24/192 PCM and 5.6448MHz DSD.

I am using the CH link.

The display in the C1 shows "DSD" when playing downloaded files, if that matters .

Well, if wisnon is right, and he often is, your DAC will accept an input DSD file with the CH Link but that doesn't change its internal operation if it is converting to PCM.

So yes, it might display DSD (as in 'the input I am receiving is a DSD content'), but... at the D/A and output section, you have some losses there because of the conversion to PCM internally.

So, one thing to try in your system as it's not a native DSD DAC, is to try to feed it from the player an already converted-to-PCM file and thus bypass the internal conversion and compare the SQ in both.

In your setup, you could do that with a server computer and a player like HQ Player (you can do a trial or ask someone to help with this).

In your setup, there is a good chance that a DXD file will sound better for you as well (e.g. try the High-Res test files at 2l.no as they do native DXD recording).

 

[jep123]

Well, if wisnon is right, and he often is, your DAC will accept an input DSD file with the CH Link but that doesn't change its internal operation if it is converting to PCM.

So yes, it might display DSD (as in 'the input I am receiving is a DSD content'), but... at the D/A and output section, you have some losses there because of the conversion to PCM internally.

So, one thing to try in your system as it's not a native DSD DAC, is to try to feed it from the player an already converted-to-PCM file and thus bypass the internal conversion and compare the SQ in both.

In your setup, you could do that with a server computer and a player like HQ Player (you can do a trial or ask someone to help with this).

In your setup, there is a good chance that a DXD file will sound better for you as well (e.g. try the High-Res test files at 2l.no as they do native DXD recording).

I might try this comparison at some point, right now I am enjoying the music. I will check with CH Precision what really is happening when playing DSD files. I will inform you here when I know more. At the moment I am listening to Gustav Mahlers 8 symphony on SACD. The sound is fine, the music is challenging...

JP

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I might try this comparison at some point, right now I am enjoying the music. I will check with CH Precision what really is happening when playing DSD files. I will inform you here when I know more. At the moment I am listening to Gustav Mahlers 8 symphony on SACD. The sound is fine, the music is challenging...

JP

Which M8? Stereo or multichannel?

 

[jep123]

Which M8? Stereo or multichannel?

Hybrid multichannel SACD. Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra, Amsterdam. Bernard Haitink.

I have just started with Mahler actually, but this I need to hear several times I guess.

JP

 

[jep123]

Well, if wisnon is right, and he often is, your DAC will accept an input DSD file with the CH Link but that doesn't change its internal operation if it is converting to PCM.

So yes, it might display DSD (as in 'the input I am receiving is a DSD content'), but... at the D/A and output section, you have some losses there because of the conversion to PCM internally.

So, one thing to try in your system as it's not a native DSD DAC, is to try to feed it from the player an already converted-to-PCM file and thus bypass the internal conversion and compare the SQ in both.

In your setup, you could do that with a server computer and a player like HQ Player (you can do a trial or ask someone to help with this).

In your setup, there is a good chance that a DXD file will sound better for you as well (e.g. try the High-Res test files at 2l.no as they do native DXD recording).

One obeservation;
When playing ordinary red book cd's with the D1 transport they sound better than the same ripped CD played from the Aurender through a USB cable to the C1 dac. This might have something to do with that I use the CH Link cable between the D1 and the C1. One thing is for sure in any case; My CD' s have never sounded this good before, I find great pleasure in playing normal red book cd's as well now. I do not "need" hi rez files to enjoy the music.

 

[YashN]

One obeservation;
When playing ordinary red book cd's with the D1 transport they sound better than the same ripped CD played from the Aurender through a USB cable to the C1 dac. This might have something to do with that I use the CH Link cable between the D1 and the C1. One thing is for sure in any case; My CD' s have never sounded this good before, I find great pleasure in playing normal red book cd's as well now. I do not "need" hi rez files to enjoy the music.

That's all very good because most material is already on Redbook.

It doesn't mean, however, that if you try high-res properly it doesn't sound better.

In fact, it's far better.

 

[jep123]

That's all very good because most material is already on Redbook.

It doesn't mean, however, that if you try high-res properly it doesn't sound better.

In fact, it's far better.

Of course and SACD also sounds better than ordinary CD`s. No surprise there.

JP

 

[YashN]

Of course and SACD also sounds better than ordinary CD`s. No surprise there.

There you go, and what's SACD? It's DSD content together with DRM.

So a DSD file well played (native DSD DAC with no intermediate conversion to PCM) is as good or better than SACD.