Downsizing from dCS Vivaldi Stack? Is this dumb?

[thedudeabides]

Be careful what you ask for. Unfortunately, I think not.

 

[davetheoilguy]

Maybe my Oppo bdp-95 (I modded) can be a good alternative to dCS Vivaldi stack.

The sound quality of dCS Vivaldi. Please play below video and hear people's voice (0~6 min). The voices are good and natural. Then click anywhere after 6 min which is all music. I hear harsh bright glare/veiled music sounds.

Another example (DCS Bartók)

Original music

Modded Oppo BDP-95

dCS Vivaldi One​

I know the large part of bright glare comes from dCS gears since I know where/how those bright glares come from and fix Oppo to sound clean. Is my modded Oppo a good alternative for dCS?

I have no way to judge based on a recording-of-a-recording posted on Youtube. So I have no idea. But I doubt it.

I'm assuming you are talking the Oppo bdp-95, the blu-ray player of yore. Came out about 2011? Or is there something new?

If it's the old payer, the Oppo bdp-95 uses about a 15 year old SABRE chip set as the DAC. It's the kind of stuff not even used in Topping or the like anymore. It was on the nicer side of mid-fi when it came out, and not in the ballpark anymore. Cost about $45 for the chip.

I just don't think that would stand any kind of chance against the modern tech. Be like comparing an Iphone 3 to a 15.

 

[Wavetouch]

I have no way to judge based on a recording-of-a-recording posted on Youtube. So I have no idea. But I doubt it.

I'm assuming you are talking the Oppo bdp-95, the blu-ray player of yore. Came out about 2011? Or is there something new?

If it's the old payer, the Oppo bdp-95 uses about a 15 year old SABRE chip set as the DAC. It's the kind of stuff not even used in Topping or the like anymore. It was on the nicer side of mid-fi when it came out, and not in the ballpark anymore. Cost about $45 for the chip.

I just don't think that would stand any kind of chance against the modern tech. Be like comparing an Iphone 3 to a 15.

Yes. My modded Oppo BDP-95 is 14 years old Blu-ray player and is older SABRE chip. I like the sound of Oppo BDP-95 better than the sound of BDP-105, Chord Hugo2, ES9038PRO chips, etc. Newer chips destroy the original sound and don't have the honest sound like older chips.

The newer chips split the each sound to small pieces, re-shape (clean up?) and put together. The sound of newer chip seems cleaner and detailed. Caveat is this process is only good with damaged music data. In many digital sources, much digital music data are destroyed right at the reading (acquiring) stage. My Oppo preserves the original music and I can hear more organic honest sound.

Closer look of my system (modded Oppo) in below video.

Below is by Audiophile junkie (YT id.) 2 years ago. My system sounds much better now.
Please notice human voices and speaker sounds are relax and comfortable (natural sound) unlike other un--natural sound systems.

Other sample. Estelon, MSB at same show.

Other sample. Gryphon audio at same show. People voices sound great. Music sound?

 

[Al M.]

I have no way to judge based on a recording-of-a-recording posted on Youtube. So I have no idea. But I doubt it.

Agree, you can't conclude anything from the videos. I have heard the dCS Vivaldi many times. In real life you can get much better sounds out of it than on the videos posted.

 

[Wavetouch]

Agree, you can't conclude anything from the videos. I have heard the dCS Vivaldi many times. In real life you can get much better sounds out of it than on the videos posted.

Maybe your ears were adjusted to the glare sound (un-natural sound) with dCS Vivaldi and you didn't notice the bad noise.
In below video, the left speaker (at 0:26) sounds fine, but it is actually very noisy un-natural sound (at 1:29). All audio in the world behave/sound like the left speaker. The noise/glare is always there even if we don't notice them. It is unhealthy for ears too.

In below, voices are good and natural (0~6 min). Then the music (6~19 min) sounds bad with harsh bright glare/veil.

Of course. we can't conclude anything from videos, but it helps.
Mic isn't human and it can't lie. Human ears do. It is certain that my Oppo doesn't have those usual glare/noise.

 

[netteb16]

I’d love to hear where this decision making came out. I’m much more of a vinyl guy, but finally paying attention to my digital which has been an afterthought.

My leading contenders are the DCS Vivaldi apex (probably the One, although I already have an excellent transport) and the Mola Mola Tamwhatever (stupid name). I was looking at that testing on Stereophile and it’s darn near identical. I’ve now heard both (unable to do A/B) and both are excellent with different reviewers saying “best DAC ever”.

I have a close third contender - the Nagra HD X - because I am madly in love with my Nagra HD preamp. What a fine piece of kit. But I’ve heard very little objective feedback and they are decidedly opaque on the details of their chipset and software. I’ve also seen zero testing.

I decided to stand pat with the Vivaldi stack. I flirted a bit with MSB but didn’t think I was truly gaining anything. Maybe a bit less analytical, but A/B comparisons in a system are basically impossible (at least for my untrained ears). I actually really like the Mola Mola Tambiqui, hearing it a couple times, but not in my system. If I did decide to simplify my system, I think I actually might go the Mola Mola route..

 

[Ron Resnick]

[MSB] Maybe a bit less analytical,

Definitely, to my ears, and to the ears of my host, in direct comparison.

 

[Al M.]

Maybe your ears were adjusted to the glare sound (un-natural sound) with dCS Vivaldi and you didn't notice the bad noise.

Nonsense. It depends on system context how the Vivaldi sounds. At the same time I also listened to other DACs, including in the same system, as well as to vinyl. And to live concerts of unamplified music.

Of course. we can't conclude anything from videos, but it helps.

Yes, we can't, and no, it doesn't help. System videos -- especially those made with non-professional equipment like a phone, but really all of them -- are the most irrational thing that has ever happened to high-end audio.

System videos are incapable of reproducing, or even be reasonably representative of, the *absolute* sound of a system. And comparisons between videos of different systems are a non-starter.

At best, system videos can give you a very *crude* idea of *relative* changes within a system by switching of components if otherwise recording conditions are *exactly* the same in both conditions.

Mic isn't human and it can't lie. Human ears do. It is certain that my Oppo doesn't have those usual glare/noise.

No, your Oppo doesn't sound good either in your videos, which like most system videos do exhibit unpleasant glare/noise.

 

[itay123]

Maybe my Oppo bdp-95 (I modded) can be a good alternative to dCS Vivaldi stack.

The sound quality of dCS Vivaldi. Please play below video and hear people's voice (0~6 min). The voices are good and natural. Then click anywhere after 6 min which is all music. I hear harsh bright glare/veiled music sounds.

Another example (DCS Bartók)

Original music

Modded Oppo BDP-95

dCS Vivaldi One​

I know the large part of bright glare comes from dCS gears since I know where/how those bright glares come from and fix Oppo to sound clean. Is my modded Oppo a good alternative for dCS?

I don't mean to sound offensive, BUT
It can be seen that you are making an effort in your responses to try to convince, but honestly, friend, I don't even know how to refer to the things you wrote, and/or showed,

A few words about OPPO players in general,
I have owned every OPPO player including
83NE, 95, 105, 105 modified and I was before ordering the 205 as well 4 years ago, the OPPO players are really something special, and their advantage is like a "Swiss Army Knife", giving everything from everything, in comfort and in practice, however it never impressed me, no matter what SETUP there was combined as DACs/source,
OPPO's sound has always felt too dry and too narrow to me, BTW, it sounds like that in your video, BTW2, why do I hear so much noise in your recording? What AC treatment do you have and what Cables do you use?

If we still judge by videos, which is extremely ridiculous, the video of the XLF with CH sounds significant, alive, convincing, clear and accurate than what you tried to show - So the dcs really isn't the problem.

I'm not a fan of dcs, even on the contrary, from my experience with dcs in the last few months and in SETUPs where I heard combinations of them, my impression was very low, despite the advantages in some of the SETUPs I heard, where it demonstrated speed, sharpness and clarity that I really liked in some cases, it's a company for digital which for me does not represent digital (analog) properly,

BUT to compare "apples" with "watermelons", and more, on based on various videos in which is totally ridiculous and does not fit this strong area/hobby at all.

 

[davetheoilguy]

I decided to stand pat with the Vivaldi stack. I flirted a bit with MSB but didn’t think I was truly gaining anything. Maybe a bit less analytical, but A/B comparisons in a system are basically impossible (at least for my untrained ears). I actually really like the Mola Mola Tambiqui, hearing it a couple times, but not in my system. If I did decide to simplify my system, I think I actually might go the Mola Mola route..

Thank you for the response. It's certainly not one I can disagree with. I'm down to Vivaldi Apex One (used); an MSB Reference (used) with the clock and director, etc; and and Tambiqui (new).

The Apex One would be the least trouble, as I could take out my Esoteric K-03XD (CD transport/DAC) and just slide it into place. It's presumably essentially the same transport, as they are both the nicest-side of TEAC.

The MSB would be a PIA to fit into the system and kill an afternoon.

Again, my emotional favorite remains the Nagra HD X, but the sheer lack of information on the actual digital conversion process tells this cynical oil man that its either nothing special or a weakness supported by its amazing analog side -- which I have already in the Nagra HD pre. It would also be a PIA to make fit.

The Tambiqui would fit with some minor fiddling, is the cheapest by far, and may, indeed, be the best, or at least the near equal of the Apex. Certainly in the ballpark. It's probably the smart move.

That said, it's not exactly an emergency, and lacking clear guidance, tells me I should stand pat for a bit. I've learned a lot from others who are also vacillating.

 

[davetheoilguy]

Yes. My modded Oppo BDP-95 is 14 years old Blu-ray player and is older SABRE chip. I like the sound of Oppo BDP-95 better

And that is what is important. I am very happy you have found something that pleases you. That is the entire purpose of a music system.

Newer chips destroy the original sound and don't have the honest sound like older chips.

The newer chips split the each sound to small pieces, re-shape (clean up?) and put together. The sound of newer chip seems cleaner and detailed. Caveat is this process is only good with damaged music data. In many digital sources, much digital music data are destroyed right at the reading (acquiring) stage. My Oppo preserves the original music and I can hear more organic honest sound.

That is not how it works, but, again, very happy for you. I suppose it's a bit like the debate about tubes vs. solid state.

One place you might want to investigate is the Audio Science Review Forum. They tend to have a cynical (some say envious) view of a lot of nicer audio equipment and go way overboard on their reliance in testing (when there are certain things that cannot be tested -- at least not with our current knowledge of both the human brain/hearing and electronics) but they are a good data point on reviews and do help one spot marketing hype and the worst snake oil.

Of particular relevance to you, there are some great articles/threads/videos on how digital-to-analog conversion actually works. I suspect you have some strong ideas on this matter and considerable knowledge, but a fresh review may be helpful for you.

I would encourage you to copy-and-paste your post (with more detail of your revisions) and get feedback from that crowd.

 

[Al M.]

The Tambiqui would fit with some minor fiddling, is the cheapest by far, and may, indeed, be the best, or at least the near equal of the Apex. Certainly in the ballpark. It's probably the smart move.

The Tambaqui is excellent indeed, high resolution and musical.

However, hearing it first in your system before purchase would be, as always, required. It may or may not be very difficult to do so.

 

[Elliot G.]

FYI there are a bunch of new products in the DAC area that will premiered at MOC next week.
Wadax and CH Precision both are unveiling new items and I have heard that there are others replacing thier gear as well.
We shall see!

 

[Mike Lavigne]

anyone heard anything about the all-new $300k-$400k dCS "Wadax rival" maybe at Munich? i heard rumors about it from a reliable source last year, but nothing since.

this is suppose to be a complete departure from the Vivaldi line up, the Apex upgrade was said to be a stop gap to give dealers a temporary life line until this new series could be introduced.

but seen nothing, heard nothing. just crickets so far.

and it will also be interesting to see whether the next version of dacs will work optimally with the new Taiko server.

 

[Wavetouch]

I don't mean to sound offensive, BUT
It can be seen that you are making an effort in your responses to try to convince, but honestly, friend, I don't even know how to refer to the things you wrote, and/or showed,

I like that. Thank you!

davetheoilguy​

And that is what is important. I am very happy you have found something that pleases you.

Thank you for your kind words!

Every ears are different. For my ears, my humble Oppo sounds closest to the original music. Others probably hear it differently. Cheers,

 

[davetheoilguy]

FYI there are a bunch of new products in the DAC area that will premiered at MOC next week.
Wadax and CH Precision both are unveiling new items and I have heard that there are others replacing thier gear as well.
We shall see!

And this, I suppose, is why I have a bit of vapor lock.

I get the distinct impression (based on nothing but history) that very new tech is bubbling up. Not sure why I’ve got that feeling.

It may be because lots of very nice DACs are hitting the used market suddenly.