Double bass, cello, trombone, horn smearing

[jackiejr]

My system can be very engaging. Pop music sounds very good.
Bass timbre is good. A little trouble with orchestral music. Some smearing
in low end, especially double bass, cello, trombone mix (for example). This area could be more consistent.
I think I've got the room out of the way for the most part.
I believe the power amp and DAC are the weak links.
I'm not sure what my next step should be.

 

[Gregadd]

Welcome to the club. Enjoy the ride.

 

[sbnx]

Hello, try moving the speakers forward a little. Millimeters matter. And this may seem crazy but try raising the speakers a little. Turn all 4 spikes 1/2 a turn and give a listen.

 

[defride]

As @sbnx says, small changes can make all the difference. I'd be experimenting with speaker placement and listening position before looking at the electronics

 

[Gregadd]

My system can be very engaging. Pop music sounds very good.
Bass timbre is good. A little trouble with orchestral music. Some smearing
in low end, especially double bass, cello, trombone mix (for example). This area could be more consistent.
I think I've got the room out of the way for the most part.
I believe the power amp and DAC are the weak links.
I'm not sure what my next step should be.

Would you care to name your components?

 

[jackiejr]

Living Voice R25A speakers Luminance KST-150 amp Denafrips Pontus 2 DAC LInear Tube Audio MICROZOTL preamp CEC TL5. Agree on speaker placement. That's why I said the room is out of the way. Spent a lot of time with this.

 

[Gregadd]

Cables?
PLACEMENT

The Living Voice instruction manual gives explicit guidance on setup and positioning of the speakers and I think owners of this loudspeaker should take notice of this. The advice given will offer the listener the finest stereophonic imaging and soundstage placement of any type of music you may choose to enjoy. It is needless to say that we should be well aware that these placement instructions are offered as ideas—but they are well worth their weight in gold.

All things considered, all your three wall boundaries surrounding the speakers should be symmetrical and evenly measured to the centimeter while the speakers should have a toe in of about 20-30%; in my case, it was about a 22% toe in–this regardless of your room size and assuming—- your listening position is pertinently centralized. In this manner, the stereophonic reproduction on the R25A will be as sharp as a razor; presumably when the source material and its microphone placement were recorded with at least a “hint” of accuracy. I cannot deny that stereo imaging is second to none when it comes to my enjoyment of any substantially authentic audiophile setup — loudspeakers or any other components one may be using upstream in the system.

BASS RESPONSE via SPEAKER PLACEMENT

If we look at the R25A’s bass response subjectively from about 100hz and down, we find a fine mid-lower bass slam that while not as deep as some enthusiasts may have come to expect, produced more than enough “thwack” on orchestral bass drums while acoustic pop recordings have a fine impact as well displaying most if not all of the natural depth and intensity of the electric bass guitar.

Not having heard the previous model, it may appear that the updated mixed material cabinet has played a large part in keeping the R25A bass under control in most situations, eliminating any mid-bass “drumminess” or that one note” boom” many speakers in this price category may exhibit. However, once in a while with certain program sources, the speaker will exhibit a mild ‘thumping” in the 75-150hz region.

Most ironically, this was noticed with more highly dynamic classical program material rather than rock, or pop sources as the latter may have had some electronic manipulation inserted into the mix. As such, pop enthusiasts will truly enjoy a solid and controlled audible foundation with this new model displaying a firm, dynamically tuned bass kickback.

It must be noted that if you have any problems getting the R25A’s bass under full control, please think carefully about setup. I always initially start with the most conventional loudspeakers in my room, (26 x 14) at about 4 feet from the front wall to the front baffle and around 3.5 feet from both sidewalls. I can then manipulate the distance back and forth during initial listening evaluations. As I am a perfectionist in this respect, let me say that this is always a trying and sometimes, aggravating situation, particularly in terms of exact toe in as well as all other measurements. I can spend over an hour, or even days, back and forth measuring and towing in or out a loudspeaker incrementally as to get a perfectly centered image and as fine a bass response as my room will tolerate. In the case of the R25A, this will pay off immensely–! However, this is me— others may not be as fussy!

As the final result came to fruition here, the Living Voice was truly able to show a decent amount of strongly taut and solid overall bass/mid-bass quality as well as a good bit more than you may expect to go around.

Furthermore, as my experience has shown, and contrary to the designer’s preferred needs, I could only assume …… that full tube amplifiers, or a 300b pentode or triode, may induce a somewhat less forceful bass response, although I cannot say for certain, in any respect, not having had either on hand to try out on the R25A. Admittedly, this was not the case with some hybrid amplifiers that were tried out with this speaker in the interim.

However, outboard DACs are of great importance when fine-tuning this speaker or any system for that matter in that they may be a touch softer, deeper in the bass response, or a “spec” leaner in the mid/treble response depending on the product in use. The Border Patrol (using a discreet tube rectified power supply on its input stage) and my Audio Note CD/DAC seemed to work wonders with the R25A in almost every respect. Keep your ears keen on loudspeaker/DAC subjective compatibility on any system you are currently using.

 

[jackiejr]

Thanks for everything. I appreciate it.

 

[Gregadd]

We are not finished.
L.T.A. integrated Laampizator Amber 4 dac