Does everything in Munich sound like Magico/ Spectral? Anything tonally rich or not European taste?
- Thread starter caesar
- Start date
Gentlemen, it's kind of comical that some think their tastes and preferences are better or worse than others... "Audio Realism" is imaginary after objective stimuli hit the mind... Platonism is alive and well...
A lot of insecurity coming out as anger in this thread!
A lot of insecurity coming out as anger in this thread!
Fair question, Davey. This was obviously off topic, but since the thread isn't really going anywhere and you asked, I did a search looking for some very specific comments that Valin about the CAT sound and while I didn't find them, I did find these:
"Another speaker I’ve liked in the past also had a good show: the $100k, three-way (1" diamond tweeter, 7" ceramic midrange, two 10" aluminum woofers), bass-reflex Marten Coltrane 3 floorstander, driven by Convergent Audio Technologies electronics, and sourced by a TechDAS 3 turntable with Graham ’arm and Van Den Hul cartridge. In spite of a bit of room-induced thump in the midbass, this system had dark rich color, superb focus, sledgehammer dynamics, and a very wide soundstage. Though three-dimensional, the Coltranes weren’t, once again, as realistically bloomy and airy as the ARC/Sonus system, because, I think, bloom and air aren’t CAT virtues. Still, I didn’t hear a trace of sibilance or roughness on Dream with Dean, and despite a bit of distortion in the right channel, PP&M’s “The Very Last Day” gave me goosebumps."
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"Speaking of Magico. Driven by CAT electronics, sourced by a Kronos Pro turntable with ZYX Universe cartridge (and alternately by Jonathan Horwich’s two-track 15ips tapes), Magico’s $38k S5 Mk II three-ways (two 10" woofer, one 6" midrange, and one 1" beryllium tweeter) also came close to making the Top Five. In fact, they would’ve made the Top Five save for a little aggressiveness in the upper midrange—which added, for example, a touch of sibilance to Dean’s voice on Dream with Dean and a little brightness to PP&M’s harmonies on “All My Trials”—a little overall darkness of timbre (typical of CAT electronics), and a couple of room-related issues (a lack of focus and stage depth due to very close-to-the-wall placement). On the other hand, the Magico/CAT system was extremely lively with good dynamic spark and superior linearity in the bass. It sounded particularly wonderful with Horwich’s mastertapes."
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"VAC has far more bloom and air and is much more neutral in timbre than CAT, which is dark in balance. OTOH, CAT is harder-hitting than VAC and better defined and more powerful in the bass (best tube bass I've heard, in fact). I'm not sure about how VAC compares with the latest ARC, though I'd bet that ARC would still hold a slight edge in air and bloom, while VAC would be quicker, less forward, more neutral in timbre, and marginally superior in the low end. Resolution would probably be close, though VAC might hold a slight edge."
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"Though it is not in my price category, my fifth and final pick for best-sounding exhibit at CES 2016 is the $16.5k Magico S1 floorstanding two-way, which also made its debut at the show. Driven by Ken Stevens’ Convergent Audio Technology electronics and sourced by a Berkeley Audio DAC (the presentation was all-digital, as is generally the case with Magico), the sound was dark, detailed, and dynamic as hell, with impact and bass extension that were simply shocking in a two-way. I’ve always liked two-ways, which have some advantages (not the least of which are their smallish, easier-to-disappear enclosures and single crossovers) that multi-driver speakers don’t, and Alon Wolf of Magico has made some great ones in the past. But his new S1 takes the cake, and the candles. This is Wolf and CTO Yair Tammam’s best effort yet in a small, “affordable” loudspeaker. Ultimately, the sound with the CAT amplification was more beautiful than real (like so much else at CES), but the S1 was so very beautiful and enormously powerful and astonishingly fast and extended it disarmed criticism."
I would take Valin's comments about CAT with a pound of salt. Valin has been marketing Audio Research for years, and VAC most recently. Furthermore, Valin and Cat Stephens have had a long running feud, so Valin has used every opportunity to put down CAT.
None! Hence the simple question!
These shows cost a lot of money to attend, and even more precious is time wasted. I no longer go to RMAF because 80% of the rooms are the same drek year after year.
Amazing how so many insecure people - and people that understand basic marketing principles (of targeting to an audience and companies using reviewers as brand marketing representatives) - have interpreted my simple question as an editorial comment.
Simple question ? You made a hobby out of posting inflammatory threads pointed at Magico.
You actions match the definition of an Internet Troll:
In Internet slang, a troll (/?tro?l/, /?tr?l/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal, on-topic discussion,[3] often for the troll's amusement.
Again, I am asking a simple question about which audio companies would choose to spend resources at a particular show, in a particular geographic area. I'm not sure, then, why so many people are trolling this simple thread with negative, emotionally-laden comments.
And then everybody else is insecure, says the guy who won't post his system and takes every single opportunity (or creates that opportunitiy!) to put down a brand/sound he doesn't like...
Again, not sure what this has to do with me personally. But your tag line says you are dealer and it shows that you sell more than one sound. Imagine if a customer came to you and said he wants a warmer sound. In that case you may recommend D'Agostino or something even warmer, and if he wanted a leaner sound, you would recommend something else...
Caesar,
you are a sh*t stirrer extraordinaire by any definition. and yet you yourself are stealth personified.
so just accept the truth of it and man up. that's who you are. not that the forum has not ran with many of your threads and enjoyed them. your stirring typically does hit close to home on people's biases/flash points.
not sure I'd want you to change.
have a nice day.
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caesar,
Precisely. Part of being a dealer is knowing when preferences end and client satisfaction begin. I know how to separate that, and when I evaluate gear, I do it with that dual purpose in mind.
Of course, there's stuff out there that I won't sell, because I still want to sleep at night...
Perhaps if people stopped dealing in absolutes in this hobby, the conversation would improve. One man's "dry and sterile" is another's "transparent and natural". Go figure. Things are made even more complex by the interaction of 2 pieces will generally create unknown, and generally not predictable results.
I think it's most important to know where gear sits in the grand scheme of things, and where your preferences lie, than deal with absolutes.
cheers,
alex
Ian, interesting posts from Valin. After reading these, he has once again fallen ever further in my estimation of the man. Having heard the Martens, i can state that IMO the Martens could be defined as to what he reported. However, I heard the Martens with completely different up stream gear. Valid is one reporter whom, again IMHO, is not that honest of a scribe. He clearly is influenced by whomever is holding the purse strings.
BTW, Caesar, I don't think Cat Stevens has much of a beef with Valin, LOL
: Ken Stevens OTOH may indeed! Sorry, just trying to clarify what Davey and Ian are discussing here. Valin says CAT is a bit darker, hard hitting, good and linear in bass, VAC more neutral, AR more airy, in the last part that Ian posted, he says CAT beautiful sounding but not real. Is this a fair summary of what Valin is saying? And Ian, what do you think of those attributes, and which valves does Valin prefer - AR?
Valin loves AR. I can't say whether Valin has any ulterior motives but my impressions of CAT align with his. That is not to say it's not great stuff - I own and love my CAT JL7s and have yet to hear a better amp in my system, but it is a little dark sounding to my ears (as opposed to open and airy).
Ian, like most tube gear, CAT benefits ( sometimes immensely ) by rolling in tubes. I believe this applies to not just their preamps, but also to their amps. If, for some reason, your amps sound a bit 'dark', I would suggest rolling in some NOS tubes...and also looking at what cabling ( Kubala Sosna) you are using with the gear. CAT gear is like a fine tuned engine, one needs to give it a tune up and a little care once in awhile....Plus, like a high performance sports car, it can be made to perform even better with some mods. However, one has to be careful as to what gear is mated with it ....as Alex correctly stated above about interaction, care needs to be given as to the ancillary gear that is chosen.
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