Disturbing "Sonic Trend" showing up on most all current "Big Buck" systems!

[cannata]

I don't think so, and neither do a majority of major speaker manufacturers.

The truth is implementation of the chosen design is far more important. Excellent speakers can be built sealed or ported. There are pros and cons to either design choice.

I don't need to list all the highly acclaimed top end, cost-no-object speakers that use ported cabs, I hope... but the fact they are so prevalent in cost-no object designs by the world's best speaker designers should be a clue. To assume you know better is sort of ridiculous imo.

I don’t assume anything, I read, learn and listen (go listen to a good sealed enclosure bass, and you will hear it as well) . The fact that most “cost-no-object designs” only uses off-the shelves components, and most of them are of a mediocre quality that can only work in a ported box, does not help your argument either.

 

[DaveC]

I don’t assume anything, I read, learn and listen (go listen to a good sealed enclosure bass, and you will hear it as well) . The fact that most “cost-no-object designs” only uses off-the shelves components, and most of them are of a mediocre quality that can only work in a ported box, does not help your argument either.

You're seriously misguided my friend. And did you just suggest I go listen to a sealed vs a ported speaker as if I've never heard both? Lol...

 

[rbbert]

Come on; do you mean to say there are no "off-the-shelf" components of "mediocre" quality in any of those three speaker systems??

 

[Groucho]

Every time I have ever seen a discussion on ported versus sealed, the technical arguments are ignored, and only one circular argument prevails. That is, most speakers, including really expensive ones, use ports, therefore there must be a really good reason to use ports. The possibility that the speaker industry could have got it wrong is considered to be "LOL".

 

[Ron Resnick]

I do not think any more progress can be made on this topic other than to say that with proper implementation both sealed designs and vented designs can produce the desired sonic result.

 

[LL21]

Interesting reading from an interview by Robert Harley with Andy Payor of Rockport Technologies:

"Could you talk about why you choose ported over sealed enclosures?

There’s been a lot of talk lately about the supposed superiority of sealed enclosures, but what is not widely recognized is that both ported and sealed enclosures use forms of resonance to extend the bass response. While the two resonant mechanisms differ somewhat, the extension and bass response of both systems is achieved through resonance.

The reason we use ported enclosures is that for a given enclosure size and a given –3dB point a ported enclosure can actually have greater sensitivity and lower distortion. The reason the distortion is lower is that as long as you are above port resonance, the driver excursion in a ported enclosure is less than that of a driver in a sealed enclosure. It’s driver excursion that creates distortion. If your port-resonance tuning is low, you’re unlikely to have musical stimulus below the port resonance. That frequency in the Altair is 24Hz.

We also use a proprietary tuning where the bass rolloff is approximately 12dB per octave, not the 24dB per octave of a standard ported enclosure. The notion that ported enclosures are hard to position in a room because of their rapid rolloff, or that they have poor transient response, is simply not true. It is true of a poorly done ported design, but the same could be said for a poorly done sealed design."

 

[Groucho]

I do not think any more progress can be made on this topic other than to say that with proper implementation both sealed designs and vented designs can produce the desired sonic result.

One could say the same thing about any two contrasting approaches in audio. Forums would be very quiet places!

 

[microstrip]

I do not think any more progress can be made on this topic other than to say that with proper implementation both sealed designs and vented designs can produce the desired sonic result.

People can give examples to illustrate their points of view and opinions. IMHO there is much more than simple low frequency physics in bass reproduction - it is a very complex process. Designers choose the technique that better complements their concept of the whole speaker and aims, including subjective balance in the rooms used for development and testing.

Some search in the rooms and opinions of the usual suspects (mostly great speaker designers ) results in very interesting findings.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Wow, a breath of fresh air.

On that we agree.

Tim

 

[Groucho]

People can give examples to illustrate their points of view and opinions. IMHO there is much more than simple low frequency physics in bass reproduction - it is a very complex process. Designers choose the technique that better complements their concept of the whole speaker and aims, including subjective balance in the rooms used for development and testing.

Some search in the rooms and opinions of the usual suspects (mostly great speaker designers ) results in very interesting findings.

A good comment, but I think it is possible that a fashion can be followed and the disadvantages of the new approach forgotten along the way. In which case "their concept of the whole speaker and aims" becomes one of starting with the idea of building "a fashionably slim ported speaker with adequate bass performance" rather than "a speaker with good time domain performance and exceedingly deep bass whose enclosure dimensions we will worry about later".

 

[cannata]

You're seriously misguided my friend. And did you just suggest I go listen to a sealed vs a ported speaker as if I've never heard both? Lol...

Some choose what is available to them (Wilson), and some choose what is economical (Focal and TAD) You guys can raise hell, but take a look at this photo and see some of the real "quality" that goes into these “high-end” loudspeakers
.
This is the TAD bass section XO, my 1998, $900, Epos have better parts

Very few choose the costly proper way (why else do you think a company like Magico or YG exist?).
We got used to poor bombastic bass reproduction that is masking the entire sound spectrum. Instead of lol, you may want to try to look and listen a bit deeper into things, you may learn something.

 

[cannata]

A good comment, but I think it is possible that a fashion can be followed and the disadvantages of the new approach forgotten along the way. In which case "their concept of the whole speaker and aims" becomes one of starting with the idea of building "a fashionably slim ported speaker with adequate bass performance" rather than "a speaker with good time domain performance and exceedingly deep bass whose enclosure dimensions we will worry about later".

+1
ok we can call it fashion

 

[andromedaaudio]

You dont need to put expensive caps in the parallel section of a bass X over , you gotta spend where it hurts , the tw serial cap for example , tad probably knows what its doing , just throwing expensive components in the x over says nothing
Regarding ported or bass reflex , i just want to get thrilled by the sound , whether its ported or closed i couldnt care less personally .

 

[Atmasphere]

Good bass is supposed to be taut and dry when asked for and is to be able to swell when a big orchestra is played .

Taut and dry usually seems to be a symptom of overdamped drivers.

I've played string bass since 6th grade. I've heard it and others many many times. Bass is not taut and dry unless pains have been taken to make it so (such as electronic bass- I do a lot of that too, as I play keyboards in a rock band and also run a recording studio). Acoustic Bass, like any other instrument, exists in a space. If we are talking about acoustics, I find the bass ambiance to be one of the first things to go when a system lacks definition. Overdamped drivers are going to lack definition... Quite often in the real world bass is uncontrolled relative to other instruments- it all depends though on the space in which the music resides. Usually in a hall it will have more on the uncontrolled side than the 'taut' side, that's for sure.

 

[cannata]

just throwing expensive components in the x over says nothing..." .

True, but throwing crappy ones say a lot...

 

[andromedaaudio]

Atmasphere ,I agree , the taut and dry i was referering to was based on HOUSE music , which is all about control as far as i am concerned for that i miss my boulderamp ,anything else tubes

 

[andromedaaudio]

They just might think its not worth the money

True, but throwing crappy ones say a lot...

 

[Groucho]

ok we can call it fashion

Hi cannata. It hadn't actually crossed my mind that people build ported speakers because they are cheaper than sealed. It may be true, but it would imply that the speaker designers had considered all the options and made a rational choice. I just don't think they're all necessarily so open-minded.

 

[DaveC]

Some choose what is available to them (Wilson), and some choose what is economical (Focal and TAD) You guys can raise hell, but take a look at this photo and see some of the real "quality" that goes into these “high-end” loudspeakers
View attachment 21966.
This is the TAD bass section XO, my 1998, $900, Epos have better parts

Very few choose the costly proper way (why else do you think a company like Magico or YG exist?).
We got used to poor bombastic bass reproduction that is masking the entire sound spectrum. Instead of lol, you may want to try to look and listen a bit deeper into things, you may learn something.

Believe whatever you like.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Cheap ??? these just costed me 590 euro ex vat , it would be much cheaper to produce a closed speaker

20150626_182800 by andromeda61, on Flickr

Hi cannata. It hadn't actually crossed my mind that people build ported speakers because they are cheaper than sealed. It may be true, but it would imply that the speaker designers had considered all the options and made a rational choice. I just don't think they're all necessarily so open-minded.