dCS Varese vs....

[microstrip]

My theory is the unique true mono dac design creates this much lower noise floor.

Having gone through the technical literature and the hard to read patent I would also include the ACTUS system. It is supposed to "clean" the critical timing/noise issues due to digital transmission to the DAC modules.

 

[microstrip]

The dCS, on the other hand, has a much lower noise floor, and that’s probably a big part of why you hear more detail and everything comes across cleaner and more precise.

For me I find hard to say it is just a lower noise floor. The dCS Varese seems to present more information than other DAC's and less artifacts.

 

[alecm]

For me I find hard to say it is just a lower noise floor. The dCS Varese seems to present more information than other DAC's and less artifacts.

You’re absolutely right – Varèse brings a completely different level of clarity and information retrieval compared to Lampizator Horizon 360 DAC

And what really strikes me is that this difference isn’t about some tiny nuance you have to strain to hear or A/B for hours. It’s global and frankly class‑level – you don’t need to warm up to it or analyze it, it just hits you in the first few seconds on pretty much any music you throw at it.

 

[Sampajanna]

Interesting to add Aphrodite to this discussion. Also price should be added to the conversation: the Varese is 5X the price of the Horizon. I also second Plasmod in that the Horizon is highly sensitive to tubes and can retrieve more/less detail depending on the tubes chosen

 

[Ron Resnick]

You’re absolutely right – Varèse brings a completely different level of clarity and information retrieval compared to Lampizator Horizon 360 DAC

For me personally I do not prioritize clarity and information retrieval. I am looking forward to hearing Horizon 360 in direct comparison to Varese to see which is my personal preference.

I am a single issue voter. If the LampizatOr has greater "breath of life" on vocals, then for me personally it is game over.

 

[alecm]

am a single issue voter. If the LampizatOr has greater "breath of life" on vocals, then for me personally it is game over.

Ron,

want to reiterate that while I genuinely admire the Horizon—it is a good DAC—that impression holds only until you compare them head-to-head. Once you hear them side-by-side, the shift in class from the first seconds and capability becomes undeniable.

I sincerely hope you get the chance to audition them directly in the same system. I think once you do, you’ll understand exactly what I mean and why the Varèse stands apart.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Ron,

want to reiterate that while I genuinely admire the Horizon—it is a good DAC—that impression holds only until you compare them head-to-head. Once you hear them side-by-side, the shift in class from the first seconds and capability becomes undeniable.

I sincerely hope you get the chance to audition them directly in the same system. I think once you do, you’ll understand exactly what I mean and why the Varèse stands apart.

Thank you for your reply, Alec.

With respect, this is a subjective hobby, and it is incorrect to assume that you can substitute your preferences for my preferences.

We have a lot of expressions in audio such as "cones as resolving as electrostatic speakers" and "solid-state as liquid-sounding as SET."

If cones were resolving as electrostatic speakers, then probably no electrostatic speaker company would remain in business. If solid-state were as liquid-sounding as SET, then we wouldn't need SET.

I have never heard a solid-state DAC that offers the "breath of life" of a tube DAC. I am open-minded.

Maybe Varese will be the first one. But please don't assume that I prioritize the type of sound that you prioritize.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I am open-minded.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Interesting to add Aphrodite to this discussion. Also price should be added to the conversation: the Varese is 5X the price of the Horizon. I also second Plasmod in that the Horizon is highly sensitive to tubes and can retrieve more/less detail depending on the tubes chosen

True! But I don't personally correlate price with what my ears are going to prefer subjectively.

Unless I have the opportunity to hear Aphrodite versus Horizon360, I will not simply assume that I would prefer the Aphrodite. Relatedly, I counsel audiophiles not to automatically buy the new version of their incumbent component, unless they audition the incumbent and the new version side-by-side, and prove to themselves that they actually prefer the new version of their existing component.

 

[Ron Resnick]

the Horizon is highly sensitive to tubes and can retrieve more/less detail depending on the tubes chosen

Tube swapping is enjoyable to some and anathema to others. When a tube component is being evaluated in a side-by-side comparison I think the factory stock tubes should be used at least initially.

 

[fbhifi]

View attachment 161788

Over the few days i participated in a direct, head‑to‑head comparison between two DACs : the Lampizator Horizon 360 and the dCS Varese.

I’ll start by saying that I really like the Horizon for its sound on its own. It has that unmistakable tube flavor: lots of air, a big spacious soundstage, and very nice, natural timbre. It’s engaging, musical, and easy to enjoy.

But all of that holds true only up until the moment you hear the dCS. Once you drop the Varese into the same chain, it’s immediately obvious you’re dealing with a completely different level of performance. In direct comparison you notice that some information just isn’t really there on the Horizon, or certain sounds tend to blend together instead of staying clearly separated.

The main complaint about the Horizon (which you’d never really notice without an A/B) is that its sound is noticeably dirtier and more tonally distorted compared to the dCS. What first comes across as “tube character” starts to feel more like added coloration and grit when you have the Varese as a reference.

The dCS, on the other hand, has a much lower noise floor, and that’s probably a big part of why you hear more detail and everything comes across cleaner and more precise.

If you ditch the stock input and output tubes on your Horizon the performance will be utterly transformed. You will never go back to stock. $1200 will easily cover it.

Give this a whirl, then compare the two and decide if the additional $200K for the Varese is money well spent.

 

[microstrip]

Tube swapping has many of the attributes of the do-it-yourself or extreme tweaking. Many times the changes in the the operation point of the device have easily measurable consequences, with dramatic changes in sound attributes. Similar to what people experience when they re-tube equipment with fresh tubes.

Surely people can get a sound they enjoy better by tube swapping, but IMO we can't get the referred absence of artifacts, level of clarity and information retrieval of the dCS Varese by tube swapping in a tubed DAC. Some measurements do not lie.

Just my opinion, but if we do not like the sound of some equipment with the tubes advised by the designer we should look elsewhere.

 

[adamaley]

Tube swapping has many of the attributes of the do-it-yourself or extreme tweaking. Many times the changes in the the operation point of the device have easily measurable consequences, with dramatic changes in sound attributes. Similar to what people experience when they re-tube equipment with fresh tubes.

Surely people can get a sound they enjoy better by tube swapping, but IMO we can't get the referred absence of artifacts, level of clarity and information retrieval of the dCS Varese by tube swapping in a tubed DAC. Some measurements do not lie.

Just my opinion, but if we do not like the sound of some equipment with the tubes advised by the designer we should look elsewhere.

Ultimately, one wouldn't think tubes would bridge the $200000 gap in cost, and I myself think it shouldn't otherwise why would anyone buy the Aphrodite if it does.

 

[fbhifi]

Just my opinion, but if we do not like the sound of some equipment with the tubes advised by the designer we should look elsewhere.

…. and, if we do not like the sound of some equipment with the solid state circuit permanently installed by the designer we should look elsewhere.

With the Varese you have no choice but to kneel obediently at the dCS alter without even the option of a cushion under your knees, should you find that to make your worshiping time more enjoyable.

 

[microstrip]

…. and, if we do not like the sound of some equipment with the solid state circuit permanently installed by the designer we should look elsewhere.

Surely. This is an hobby of preference with plenty of offer - there are many excellent designs. Everyone if free to live this hobby like he wants.

With the Varese you have no choice but to kneel obediently at the dCS alter without even the option of a cushion under your knees, should you find that to make your worshiping time more enjoyable.

Fortunately I enjoyed better sitting with the dCS fantastic people at a good restaurant, and surely the sits were not cushioned ...

 

[fbhifi]

Surely. This is an hobby of preference with plenty of offer - there are many excellent designs. Everyone if free to live this hobby like he wants.



Fortunately I enjoyed better sitting with the dCS fantastic people at a good restaurant, and surely the sits were not cushioned ...

I trust that the dCS fantastic people payed the six figure restaurant bill.

 

[spiritofmusic]

I trust that the dCS fantastic people payed the six figure restaurant bill.

Man in hobby saturated with stupidly high pricing complains about stupidly high pricing.

 

[Al M.]

Ultimately, one wouldn't think tubes would bridge the $200000 gap in cost, and I myself think it shouldn't otherwise why would anyone buy the Aphrodite if it does.

Tube swapping, the miracle cure for all your ailments .

 

[fbhifi]

Man in hobby saturated with stupidly high pricing complains about stupidly high pricing.

Absolutely! You can only spend it once.

 

[microstrip]

I trust that the dCS fantastic people payed the six figure restaurant bill.

Usually people do not ask invited people to pay bills ...