DC cables? Your recommendations?

[Di-fi]

I quite like the Mundorf Angelique wire for DC cables. It sounds very good. It's a different flavor then the Mundorf silver/gold. I prefer the silver/gold in some places and the Angelique in others. It's a question of personal taste.

The Mundorf silver/gold is a softer wire and easier to bend. The Angelique is more stiff but you can easily bend it to shape and it stays the way you bend it.

Acting upon your advice, I opted for SGW115 (unshielded), the thickest of the three available gauges, to craft a DC cable using various recipes.

The results have been exceptionally rewarding in terms of elevating sound quality to an unprecedented level (server/endpoint and last switch power feed). However, it's worth noting that the (1,5 mm) cable's stiffness becomes quite apparent when attempting to position it between devices for connection, it definitely stays the way you bend it! I can only imagine the Angelique being more stiff (maybe the thinnest was used for example with the ARC6?)

Nevertheless, the effort is well justified by the substantial improvement in audio quality. I hear you though, when you say ''I quite like the Angelique'' compared to your opinion of the SWG.

 

[bodhifile]

Thanks. Any chance you can share an image, please? I am not aware of any other connector compatible with the female WEIPU as shown above.
I am surprised your Hypsos did not even come with and original FH Canare 4S6 Star Quad for comparison?

Not easy to take a picture at the moment, unfortunately, but I was just saying that the WEIPU is a rare connector for an audiophile dc cable in the first place and that the device I'm using the Hypsos with has a Kycon KPPX-4P connector (ZenAudio cable build was custom for both connectors). I have the original FH Canare cable, but can't compare it because it has different component connectors obviously is all I was saying.

 

[Di-fi]

Not easy to take a picture at the moment, unfortunately, but I was just saying that the WEIPU is a rare connector for an audiophile dc cable in the first place and that the device I'm using the Hypsos with has a Kycon KPPX-4P connector (ZenAudio cable build was custom for both connectors). I have the original FH Canare cable, but can't compare it because it has different component connectors obviously is all I was saying.

I do understand now, I misread your initial comment. No pic necessary. ;-)

 

[Carlosoptico]

I have made two cables for the Jcat Optimo 3 Duo with 1mm diameter Mundorf silver-gold alloy wire, quad-star architecture (two wires for the positive and two for the negative, alternating), lined with cotton sheath, with rotation in the clockwise direction and shielding of a single layer, of copper sheath and connected to the terminal of the connector that leads to ground on the Optimo. One of the cables has two outputs, one for the JCAT USB XE card and the other for the OXCO MASTER JCAT clock. The other cable is for an NVME Femto SSD with the library. From the first moment the change has been spectacular. Carlos

 

[Di-fi]

I have made two cables for the Jcat Optimo 3 Duo with 1mm diameter Mundorf silver-gold alloy wire, quad-star architecture (two wires for the positive and two for the negative, alternating), lined with cotton sheath, with rotation in the clockwise direction and shielding of a single layer, of copper sheath and connected to the terminal of the connector that leads to ground on the Optimo. One of the cables has two outputs, one for the JCAT USB XE card and the other for the OXCO MASTER JCAT clock. The other cable is for an NVME Femto SSD with the library. From the first moment the change has been spectacular. Carlos

Great result! Thanks for sharing. I read before (but did not try) that starquad DC cables can yield better results than twisted pair/biwire.
Did you use shielded or unshielded Mundorf SGW 110?
I find it interesting that you prefer copper sheath as outer wrap (instead of braided copper)? Did you compare both maybe?

 

[Carlosoptico]

Great result! Thanks for sharing. I read before (but did not try) that starquad DC cables can yield better results than twisted pair/biwire.
Did you use shielded or unshielded Mundorf SGW 110?
I find it interesting that you prefer copper sheath as outer wrap (instead of braided copper)? Did you compare both maybe?

Yes, I used Mundorf thread with Teflon coating and I put a cotton cover and shielding with braided copper. Carlos

 

[flowcharts]

I also like Mundorf SGW for DC cables -- I'd been using one to from Plixir Elite BDC > JCat USB XE for the past couple months as a test. I finally put together one for the Hypsos this week.

The top cable is the popular Gotham GAC-4/1 JSSG, the 2x Mundorf SGW 115 on bottom. The Mundorf cable looks relatively thin in this picture, but that's really just an indicator of how thick the Gotham cable was in this configuration.

My recipe is very similar to the one @nenon has shared and others frequently used.
1. Lightly polish 2 lengths of 15.5awg bare silver/gold wiring to remove any oxidation
2. Apply a very light coating of Furutech Nano Liquid to the length of the conductors, wiping off any excess
3. Insert conductors into slightly oversized PTFE tubes
4. seal the tubes with adhesive-lined heat shrink
5. Insert each leg into a length of cotton tubing.
6. Gently twist the two legs together to create the twisted pair.
7. Wrap in PTFE tape to secure geometry (not much is needed in this step)
8. Solder connectors, heat shrink pins where applicable
9. Apply first shielding layer for JSSG 360 (layer of tinned copper braid)
10. Cover all but the very ends of the tinned copper braid with PTFE tape (mine was thin, so I did 2 layers)
11. Apply the second shielding layer
12. Cover the entire shielding layer in PTFE tape (2 layers again for me)
13. cover the cable in Techflex's Flexo Anti-Stat sleeving
14. Heatshrink over the ends of the sleeving/connectors

There was one additional change for making a Hypsos-specific cable. I don't use the 4-pole sensing technology, but I didn't want to cause any issues if it got switched on, so I used small segments of occ silver to connect the appropriate poles inside the cable's Weipu connector. This doesn't allow the technology to work as intended (star quad construction is required for that), but it's better than the possibility of it showing 0V if accidentally turned on.

 

[nenon]

I also like Mundorf SGW for DC cables -- I'd been using one to from Plixir Elite BDC > JCat USB XE for the past couple months as a test. I finally put together one for the Hypsos this week.
View attachment 120400
The top cable is the popular Gotham GAC-4/1 JSSG, the 2x Mundorf SGW 115 on bottom. The Mundorf cable looks relatively thin in this picture, but that's really just an indicator of how thick the Gotham cable was in this configuration.

My recipe is very similar to the one @nenon has shared and others frequently used.
1. Lightly polish 2 lengths of 15.5awg bare silver/gold wiring to remove any oxidation
2. Apply a very light coating of Furutech Nano Liquid to the length of the conductors, wiping off any excess
3. Insert conductors into slightly oversized PTFE tubes
4. seal the tubes with adhesive-lined heat shrink
5. Insert each leg into a length of cotton tubing.
6. Gently twist the two legs together to create the twisted pair.
7. Wrap in PTFE tape to secure geometry (not much is needed in this step)
8. Solder connectors, heat shrink pins where applicable
9. Apply first shielding layer for JSSG 360 (layer of tinned copper braid)
10. Cover all but the very ends of the tinned copper braid with PTFE tape (mine was thin, so I did 2 layers)
11. Apply the second shielding layer
12. Cover the entire shielding layer in PTFE tape (2 layers again for me)
13. cover the cable in Techflex's Flexo Anti-Stat sleeving
14. Heatshrink over the ends of the sleeving/connectors

There was one additional change for making a Hypsos-specific cable. I don't use the 4-pole sensing technology, but I didn't want to cause any issues if it got switched on, so I used small segments of occ silver to connect the appropriate poles inside the cable's Weipu connector. This doesn't allow the technology to work as intended (star quad construction is required for that), but it's better than the possibility of it showing 0V if accidentally turned on.

Have I mentioned that I don't do JSSG360 shielding (or any shielding) anymore? And that I use silk sleeving for each wire?

 

[flowcharts]

I wasn't aware, thanks for sharing

 

[marty]

Have I mentioned that I don't do JSSG360 shielding (or any shielding) anymore? And that I use silk sleeving for each wire?

Interesting. May I ask why you abandoned the shield? All my DC cables from Ghent Audio use a JSSG360 configuration so I'm curious what I might expect if I ordered one without the shielding.

FWIW, I have tried may DC cables from my LPS to my Extreme switch. It's amazing how different they are sonically. I was using the Mundorf SGW for several months but recently went back to the Gotham GAC which was slightly preferred (it is less bright at ~1.5-2k) and thus more neutral overall. I should mention that I'm expecting the Taiko Router and DCD next week so I'm sure I will be using Taiko's provided cables for the next few weeks/months before exploring other (non JSSG360) cables next.

Also, do we know if the DC cables provided by Taiko with the Router and DCD are shielded or not?

 

[Tuckers]

I was using the Mundorf SGW for several months but recently went back to the Gotham GAC which was slightly preferred

I'm glad to hear that, I have the Gent Gotham cable for my Roon Core. Good to know I don't need to go to the considerable expense and stress to make the Mundorf

 

[Di-fi]

I also like Mundorf SGW for DC cables -- I'd been using one to from Plixir Elite BDC > JCat USB XE for the past couple months as a test. I finally put together one for the Hypsos this week.
View attachment 120400
The top cable is the popular Gotham GAC-4/1 JSSG, the 2x Mundorf SGW 115 on bottom. The Mundorf cable looks relatively thin in this picture, but that's really just an indicator of how thick the Gotham cable was in this configuration.

My recipe is very similar to the one @nenon has shared and others frequently used.
1. Lightly polish 2 lengths of 15.5awg bare silver/gold wiring to remove any oxidation
2. Apply a very light coating of Furutech Nano Liquid to the length of the conductors, wiping off any excess
3. Insert conductors into slightly oversized PTFE tubes
4. seal the tubes with adhesive-lined heat shrink
5. Insert each leg into a length of cotton tubing.
6. Gently twist the two legs together to create the twisted pair.
7. Wrap in PTFE tape to secure geometry (not much is needed in this step)
8. Solder connectors, heat shrink pins where applicable
9. Apply first shielding layer for JSSG 360 (layer of tinned copper braid)
10. Cover all but the very ends of the tinned copper braid with PTFE tape (mine was thin, so I did 2 layers)
11. Apply the second shielding layer
12. Cover the entire shielding layer in PTFE tape (2 layers again for me)
13. cover the cable in Techflex's Flexo Anti-Stat sleeving
14. Heatshrink over the ends of the sleeving/connectors

There was one additional change for making a Hypsos-specific cable. I don't use the 4-pole sensing technology, but I didn't want to cause any issues if it got switched on, so I used small segments of occ silver to connect the appropriate poles inside the cable's Weipu connector. This doesn't allow the technology to work as intended (star quad construction is required for that), but it's better than the possibility of it showing 0V if accidentally turned on.

''I don't use the 4-pole sensing technology, but I didn't want to cause any issues if it got switched on' (...)'

@flowcharts , using or modifying the cable in this way may compromise the intended design and potential sound quality benefits of the Ferrum Hypsos.

In case someone is interested, I just noticed that Ghent does make a Hypsos PSU cable with the WEIPU connector. Weipu SF1210/P4(1/3-, 2/4+), applicable for Hypsos PSU power supply. Since Ghent does also build custom you could order a DC cable of your (shielding or not) choice. They carry Canare, Mogami, Gotham and probably some more.

4T Sensing Design (4TSD)
Ensuring the exact voltage level precisely at the point of the powered device DC input terminal - special cable design and feedback to ensure flat voltage at every moment. This technique eliminates the harmful effects of the cable's resistance effectively improving transient response (...) in HYPSOS we are using remote sensing, which is basically a Kelvin connection. This incorporates four wires, two for delivering current to the load and another two for measuring voltage directly on the load. This gives us an opportunity to get away with cable resistance,(...)

https://ferrum.audio/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/White-paper-Ferrum-HYPSOS.pdf (4T Remote Sensing p4)

 

[Di-fi]

Have I mentioned that I don't do JSSG360 shielding (or any shielding) anymore? And that I use silk sleeving for each wire?

marty said:
May I ask why you abandoned the shield?

@nenon may I also ask why you abandoned the shield for DC cables?

JSSG360 Shield vs. Single Metal Braid:
Shielding and braiding in audio cables can minimize interference and achieve a certain level of signal purity.

Silk Instead of Cotton or Teflon:
The choice of silk to influence capacitance, and dielectric properties of the cable? What perceived sound characteristics are associated with silk?

Unshielded SGW Wire with Silk Sleeving and a Single Braid, is the better DC cable today? Did you choose an unshielded cable, silk sleeving for each wire, and a single braid even though unshielded cables are generally more susceptible to interference?

Thanks in advance for your insights.

 

[nenon]

@nenon may I also ask why you abandoned the shield for DC cables?

Here is what I responded to someone on a PM:

"IMO, shielding works better with smaller bookshelf speakers. They lower the noise floor and you get more holographic / 3D sound. However, that does not come free of of cons. The price you pay is that it sucks the life out of the music. I changed several pairs of speakers since I initially posted this recipe. And I only kept going bigger and bigger. I have a huge 1500 lbs horn based speaker system and I like big sound. The shielding on my DC cables kills that. Can't go back to shielded DC cables here."

I can compare heavy shieling to an overdamped room. Yes, you can hear every little detail in an overdamped room and you can get more holographic sound. But it's not the lively and realistic sound I am after. That's why my room is full of diffusers. Shielding does something similar to a lot of absorbers in a room .

It also depends on how noisy your digital source is. When I was using a tweaked raspberry Pi I definitely prefered shielded DC cables. With my first DIY servers, I definitely preferred shielded cables. As my DIY servers started getting better, I started removing the shielding on some of my DC cables. But there was an advantage to keeping shielding in selected places.
When I built my DIY Taiko server I removed pretty much all shielding on my DC cables. I can probably also say that shielding works better with low powered streamers... as I moved towards more powerful streamers, the shielding on DC cables started to get on the way.

With the Taiko Extreme, NIC, Taiko Router, and Taiko Switch and my big horn speaker system, DC cable shielding has no place in my system.

I guess there are two camps here (and anything in between them):
- low powered streamers, room full with absorbers, small bookshelf speakers, shielded DC cables; or
- more powerful streamers, a lot of diffusers, huge speakers, non-shielded DC cables.
I am in the latter camp probably to an extreme level. Many people here are probably not, and so shielding may work well for you... just like it did for me some time ago.

 

[Di-fi]

As my DIY servers started getting better, I started removing the shielding on some of my DC cables.

I guess there are two camps here (and anything in between them):
- low powered streamers, room full with absorbers, small bookshelf speakers, shielded DC cables; or
- more powerful streamers, a lot of diffusers, huge speakers, non-shielded DC cables.

Well said Nenon. Thanks.

Here is what I responded to someone on a PM:

Regarding my other question about the Silk sleeving Instead of Cotton or Teflon, if you don't mind, can you also copy a reply from a PM here ;-)
Again, much appreciated @nenon

 

[nenon]

Well said Nenon. Thanks.


Regarding my other question about the Silk sleeving Instead of Cotton or Teflon, if you don't mind, can you also copy a reply from a PM here ;-)
Again, much appreciated @nenon

It has been a while since I've done that comparison, but cotton sounded darker than silk. The difference is not something to obsess about, though.
Teflon / air dialectic is not a bad way to go too but I prefer my DC cables slightly twisted.

 

[Amir]

I have a huge 1500 lbs horn based speaker system and I like big sound. The shielding on my DC cables kills that. Can't go back to shielded DC cables here."

I can compare heavy shieling to an overdamped room. Yes, you can hear every little detail in an overdamped room and you can get more holographic sound. But it's not the lively and realistic sound I am after. That's why my room is full of diffusers. Shielding does something similar to a lot of absorbers in a room .

100% agree you.

 

[Tubeman66]

If you want a natural and realistic sound, I can recommend Neotech SOCT 14 or 16 awg in Teflon
Remove the Teflon and replace it with cotton or silk ,

And i agree with Nenon
"Shielding can kill the sound"