Dan D'Agostino Relentless Mono Power-amplifier

[DaveyF]

Ok, now your suspicion is mixing two different issues - bling and expensive manufacture quality ...

Anyway, I firmly believe that the boards and power transformer of the Momentum assembled in a different case would sound different. The same way a Jadis wired point to point sounds better than the same Jadis fitted with a PCB.

I'm not saying the case material and design don't have anything to do with the ultimate SQ. I am saying that the 'bling' of the amps design doesn't. For example, the pocket watch style meter, the copper heatsinks etc.,
But lets agree that I understand that you need to disagree with me on all my points, it's just who you are...isn't that right.

 

[bonzo75]

Will the amp be at Munich H-end? If yes, I am going to suss it out for sure..... listen to it at 5-10 watts of power and judge it on it's sonics. I don't care or am interested in the extra 2000 watts or whatever. Only real world levels in realistic sized rooms. Which makes me come onto the subject, if we build decent and efficient speakers, why do we need 2,000 watts? Lamm and the big Wilsons work so well together, a 'match made in heaven' as described by many reviewers, yet the Lamm ML3 has 'only' 32 watts...

How are you going to judge this amps sonics at Munich?

 

[jeff1225]

Or, perhaps we should all say the new mantra...." A'philes buy with their eyes and not their ears". Dan knows this VERY well.

Not saying his gear doesn't sound good, because I think it does, but all of the fancy casework is probably there in order to support the asking price...and very little else.

BTW, there is new CAT gear coming to market, so I wouldn't be looking to replace any of it with other manufacturer's stuff at this time. The new gear is supposed to be a lot
more revealing ( if that is possible??)

I have to agree with Davey here. This is a luxury good, and looks matter as much as sonics when it comes to much of the uber-audiophilia.

 

[awsmone]

Isn’t the top Audio note close to 200k and also has a copper chassis

Although copper in the Dan’s design may look stunning, given the superior heat dissipation it also means effectively the cooling area can be slightly more subtle

I suspect there will be a few more parts in Dans design than the Audio note ?

JA often mentions that in order to stay in business the normal ratio is 5 to 1, so 50 k to build

Given the size of these amplifiers, the chassis alone will be very expensive to manufacturer

We also don’t often talk about manhours to build, but given each amplifier is in fact 2 amplifiers, I suspect quite a long time

Dan doesn’t like surface mount and prefers through hole....

I am thinking these amplifies will be very expensive to build

And yes those meters don’t come cheap...it’s his design statement since he set up on his own, reminds me of Mark Levinson original idea that high end equipment should have the feel of Leica or Hasselblad...I like it, but you pay for it if you do

 

[Folsom]

There is no way to calculate the costs of parts into it, as in even if the D'Agostino has more parts than the Audio Note, it has nothing to do with the price. Products at these expenses have transcended a parts to price ratio - not that even the lower ones play by that kind of business either.

 

[awsmone]

There is no way to calculate the costs of parts into it, as in even if the D'Agostino has more parts than the Audio Note, it has nothing to do with the price. Products at these expenses have transcended a parts to price ratio - not that even the lower ones play by that kind of business either.

Yes Folsom

Audio note transcended price performance ratios many years ago

My point is given the actually physicality of the "relentless" this is much less of an issue than with gear like audio note and Wavac etc

secondly we need to see that when we do look at what we get for our money retail, its not is there 250k worth in it, as in a viable business model thats never going to happen

 

[microstrip]

I have to agree with Davey here. This is a luxury good, and looks matter as much as sonics when it comes to much of the uber-audiophilia.

Ok, we are going in the good direction - Davey considered " A'philes buy with their eyes and not their ears"., you consider they buy with both ...

Considering this particular case, the Relentless - I would risk that people will buy mainly on the fame and reputation of Dan d'Agostino and past success of his products. I was told that even before the aspect was known, just when the price was a guess - two or three times the price of the Momentums - there were pre-orders enough to make the project economically viable.

My buying decisions are surely influenced by the notoriety and success of past realizations of designers.

 

[awsmone]

Ok, we are going in the good direction - Davey considered " A'philes buy with their eyes and not their ears"., you consider they buy with both ...

Considering this particular case, the Relentless - I would risk that people will buy mainly on the fame and reputation of Dan d'Agostino and past success of his products. I was told that even before the aspect was known, just when the price was a guess - two or three times the price of the Momentums - there were pre-orders enough to make the project economically viable.

My buying decisions are surely influenced by the notoriety and success of past realizations of designers.

Good point

Dan is selling to a different market to when he was at krell,

he seems to have combined his traditional quality of product, with new found musicality, and winning design appearance, pretty impressive evolution

 

[CKKeung]

It surprises me that an USA-made Relentless power-amp can lead to so many comments (not many of them are positive ones) in WBF.

Was it so when Constellation launched their Hercules II, Boulder launched their 3050, Kondo launched their Kagura and Audionote UK launched their GAKU-ON?

 

[Hi-FiGuy]

Amazing build quality, always sounds fantastic to me, I love steam punk , but never cared for the look.
That being said I would love to see one in person, or at least a picture of one with a human next to it for scale.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

It surprises me that an USA-made Relentless power-amp can lead to so many comments (not many of them are positive ones) in WBF.

Was it so when Constellation launched their Hercules II, Boulder launched their 3050, Kondo launched their Kagura and Audionote UK launched their GAKU-ON?

the big Boulder's had a share of this too, but there is a bit more grief maybe associated with the D'Ag due to the big meters, copper and green industrial design. tends to be a love-hate thing and stimulates input. the Boulder and Constellation are more conservatively styled and so looking at pictures you are not passing judgement on the look.

the Asian market loves bling-bling and is not put off by over-the-top look and feel like some here are typically. i experience some of that on the big darts with their red and gold color scheme......but that was a while back.

of course; none of these people are in any way candidates for this particular gear......which is always how it goes.

 

[Hi-FiGuy]

Here is the link to the room in Munich some one take some pictures
https://www.monoandstereo.com/2018/03/new-dan-dagostino-elentless-amplifier.html

 

[Ron Resnick]

. . . none of these people are in any way candidates for this particular gear......which is always how it goes.

+1

 

[CKKeung]

the big Boulder's had a share of this too, but there is a bit more grief maybe associated with the D'Ag due to the big meters, copper and green industrial design. tends to be a love-hate thing and stimulates input. the Boulder and Constellation are more conservatively styled and so looking at pictures you are not passing judgement on the look.

the Asian market loves bling-bling and is not put off by over-the-top look and feel like some here are typically. i experience some of that on the big darts with their red and gold color scheme......but that was a while back.

of course; none of these people are in any way candidates for this particular gear......which is always how it goes.

Other than those in Mainland China, I don't think audiophiles in Hong Kong, Taiwan, Japan, Singapore and maybe Thailand judge and buy hifi gears only by their exotic sizes/look/prices.

We are "veterans" and have knowledge and experience as good as the brothers in North America and Europe!

 

[cjfrbw]

Heh, Heh, what is this, an audio snob international incident? Would that be bling-i-er than thou, or less bling-ey than thou? Must be the chatter at the smoking room of the audiophile country club. Let's not start pelting each other with the Grey Poupon.

I think it's hard to compete with the Asian audiophiles for raw devotion and attention to all forms of audiophilia and audio adorations, at all cost levels.

I did not like the D'Agostino stuff when it first came out, based on photographs, but when I saw them in real life, I thought they were very nice looking.

 

[jasbirnandra]

For me music is very personal and I dont look at the beauty of the equipment I am here to get emotionally involved in music then it does not matter if the dial is from hablot or the finish is from pathek phillip

 

[andromedaaudio]

May be you can ask d ' agostino for a black box version.
What do you think of my design speakers then , Just functionality no more, ... A black box lol.

 

[jasbirnandra]

May be you can ask d ' agostino for a black box version.
What do you think of my design speakers then , Just functionality no more, ... A black box lol.

custom design should be available so that you can flaunt it also for that there is no end to it next it will be dimond studded volume control etc etc

 

[andromedaaudio]

If people want it why not , i was in China recently, they like the western goodies and have the €€

 

[microstrip]

(...) the Asian market loves bling-bling and is not put off by over-the-top look and feel like some here are typically. i experience some of that on the big darts with their red and gold color scheme......but that was a while back.

of course; none of these people are in any way candidates for this particular gear......which is always how it goes.

I think most people have the wrong idea about high-end in the Asian market. It is a knowledgeable market, filled with experts and music lovers, independently of price. Unfortunately the language barrier blocks our access to their forums - we could learn a lot from them.

Some time ago I had dinner with the international sales manager of a well known top high-end company. He told me that Asian audiophiles - their best markets, I was astonished with their sales in Vietnam! - are demanding, and although a few ask for bling, mostly want excellent sound and wanted to listen to it before buying. Their systems are carefully assembled, and their dealers are knowledgeable.