Cleaning sealed NOS old records?

[tony22]

I picked up a record I’d been looking for for a while. Lucky to find one sealed. The thing is it was released in 2006. When I opened it up the record was in a regular looking translucent sleeve, but when I took it out it didn’t “shine” like brand new recent releases do. The surface on both sides has a dull quality to it. I’m wondering if I should take any initial cleaning on it before putting it through my standard USC routine.

 

[treitz3]

Hi, Tony. I would. From what has been relayed to me, when they do the initial pressing, there is a small amount of lubricant of sorts that helps to separate the stamp plate from the LP. Part of this lubricant still resides on the LP's when they get put into the sleeve and packaged for shipping. I have always cleaned my LP's after listening to a sort of ho-hum album, cleaning that very album and listening again. That album was wonderfully transformed in many areas of the reproductive effort. The aforementioned was explained to me as to why.

Tom

 

[italia]

Always. Need to clean off any mold release, etc.

 

[tony22]

Thanks Tom. I was wondering though if I should do any sort of special pre-clean, if you will, before doing the ultrasonic cycle. And if so, what that might entail.

 

[tima]

Since it is new, I would clean it in the ultrasonic w/o a need for precleaning. There is a possibility that the lack of lustre is a result of poor vinyl. There was a fair amount of cheap vinyl pellets made during the oil crisis years.

And as mentioned there can be mold release compound on the record. Dibasic lead stearate or cadmium or other esters of stearic acid make up as much as 2 percent of the vinyl compound. These additives provide thermal buffering for the vinyl during pressing, aid the platter’s release from the mold and prevent oxidation on the newly minted record. Function served, mold-release agents turn into foreign substances between stylus and groove, where they remain and attract dirt. Chemical analyses of 50-year-old used records reveals mold-release agent still in the groove.

Fwiw I clean all newly acquired LPs in my ultrasonic system before playing them.

 

[tony22]

2006 was an oil crisis year?

 

[tima]

There is a possibility that the lack of lustre is a result of poor vinyl. There was a fair amount of cheap vinyl pellets made during the oil crisis years.

2006 was an oil crisis year?

Not what I said.

The quality of vinyl records varies across time and manufacturer. One factor is the skill level of the press operators and the relative fitness of their equipment. Another factor is the quality of the individual vinyl pellets a record pressing plant chooses to use. During certain periods of time there may be only a handful of chemical companies that make these pellets and there can be different formulas..

There were/are periods when certain manufacturers use fillers and re-cycled vinyl to make records. One of those periods was during the oil crisis years but it can happen any time. I am not saying this is the reason for your dull record made in 2006 but -- as noted -- it is a possibility. Google the question "was oil easily available in 2006?" 2006 was actually a low period for the manufacture and sale of LPs according to the RIAA. The storage environment (heat, cold, humidity) can also affect a vinyl record.

 

[jfrech]

There used to be a precleaner called "Premier". The label said it was great for mold release. I used it often before my Monks routine. I don't know what happened to it or what chemical was in it. Hopefully it didn't open a hole in the ozone layer and let more UFO's in...

 

[tony22]

I guess I should have added a smiley to that, @tima. Some additional info may help for those who know more about this stuff than me. The record is Decca 4769546, La Fille Mal Gardée (Excerpts), pressed in Germany.

 

[UEM]

From my experience, the (bad ?) optical impression of older records does not necessarily mean it should also play "dirty"…
But as repeatedly mentioned above, I always clean even brand-new records, for the reasons stated.

(I normally use an old “HANNL” machine with the rotary brush for cleaning and a Keith Monks for drying; cleaning liquids vary, as I also use some if it for Shellacs.)

Interesting record you show us here: La Fille Mal Gardée reportedly this one of the oldest Ballets written

Regards
Urs

BTW: the origin of a record is no guarantee for quality

 

[Neil.Antin]

Dibasic lead stearate or cadmium or other esters of stearic acid make up as much as 2 percent of the vinyl compound. These additives provide thermal buffering for the vinyl during pressing, aid the platter’s release from the mold and prevent oxidation on the newly minted record.

Those compounds are used to scavenge hydrogen chloride gas that is released during the high temperature pressing process. This what the RCA patent says: https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/b6/ac/a3/33b9d37bfdc952/US3960790.pdf says:

One-and-six-tenths percent of an organotin salt (resin stabilizer) is included in the compound to neutralize the generation of hydrogen chloride gas (which is produced by partial decomposition of the polyvinyl chloride resin) when the compound is pressed into a record at the normal pressing temperature. The presence of hydrogen chloride gas creates blisters and voids under the record surface and in the record surface, which cause noise when the record is played. The hydrochloric acid also etches and stains the stampers in the press. The etching and staining of the stampers then introduce imperfections in the molded record that produce noise when the record is played. If substantially less than the specified amount of organotin salt is used, generation of hydrogen chloride gas results. If more than the stated amount is used, the excess organotin salt particles are not absorbed or assimilated into the compound and become themselves the source of noise when the record is played.

 

[Neil.Antin]

When I opened it up the record was in a regular looking translucent sleeve, but when I took it out it didn’t “shine” like brand new recent releases do. The surface on both sides has a dull quality to it.

Tony,

Just use your normal cleaning process, and if the record play fine - you may be lucky.

However, the dull quality could be caused if flexible PVC was used for the record liner or record sleeve; you should be able to detect use of flexible PVC by the chemical odor it may have. Flexible PVC (not to be confused with records) off-gases plasticizer, lots (30-40%) of plasticizer is used to make the PVC flexible. The off-gassed plasticizer (which is essentially solvent) can react with the record - there is no recovery IF the record is damaged. Also, if the record was allowed to get hot the hydrogen chloride reaction I just spoke with @tima, can occur. Normally there is enough reserve heat stabilizer left after pressing to a handle transient hot events but if the record has little reserve heat stabilizer left and/or the record is allowed to get hot for an extended period (exact time unknown), record damage can occur which cannot be recovered. I have over-heated a couple records using a DIY heater (learning the corrected temp to use) and the Vinyl-Flat; the run-out area takes on an orange-peel type of surface; the record is very noisy.

Good Luck,

Neil

 

[tima]

There used to be a precleaner called "Premier". The label said it was great for mold release. I used it often before my Monks routine. I don't know what happened to it or what chemical was in it. Hopefully it didn't open a hole in the ozone layer and let more UFO's in...

It was MicroCare Premier and came as an aerosol in a can and evaporated very quickly. Vaguely remember it broke the bond between mold release compound and the vinyl -- I could be mistaken on that. Iirc is was pricey. I used it during the time when I used the Loricraft vacuum machine (which I still have.

Home

MicroCare leads the way with cleaning fluids for electronics, degreasing parts, coating medical devices and cleaning fiber optic connectors. Learn more.

www.microcare.com

 

[thekong]

Not what I said.

The quality of vinyl records varies across time and manufacturer. One factor is the skill level of the press operators and the relative fitness of their equipment. Another factor is the quality of the individual vinyl pellets a record pressing plant chooses to use. During certain periods of time there may be only a handful of chemical companies that make these pellets and there can be different formulas..

There were/are periods when certain manufacturers use fillers and re-cycled vinyl to make records. One of those periods was during the oil crisis years but it can happen any time. I am not saying this is the reason for your dull record made in 2006 but -- as noted -- it is a possibility. Google the question "was oil easily available in 2006?" 2006 was actually a low period for the manufacture and sale of LPs according to the RIAA. The storage environment (heat, cold, humidity) can also affect a vinyl record.

Around 10 years or so ago, I bought a newly released audiophile record from a store, and upon opening it found faint white strips all over the record! The store agreed to exchange it and said a number of records from that batch had the same problem. They blamed it on the translucent sleeve, saying it used some bad materials etc.

I wonder if anyone else has the same experience, and whether the sleeve materials is the true cause?

 

[tony22]

Just use your normal cleaning process, and if the record play fine - you may be lucky.

I am, at least in this case, incredibly lucky. I did my usual cleaning, and then post-cleaning wash, and after drying played the record. Glorious. Dead silent. Whew!

 

[tima]

Around 10 years or so ago, I bought a newly released audiophile record from a store, and upon opening it found faint white strips all over the record! The store agreed to exchange it and said a number of records from that batch had the same problem. They blamed it on the translucent sleeve, saying it used some bad materials etc.

I wonder if anyone else has the same experience, and whether the sleeve materials is the true cause?

I have seen something like this, not stripes but random marks. There could be any number of causes. Good you got an exchange.

 

[mtemur]

Around 10 years or so ago, I bought a newly released audiophile record from a store, and upon opening it found faint white strips all over the record! The store agreed to exchange it and said a number of records from that batch had the same problem. They blamed it on the translucent sleeve, saying it used some bad materials etc.

I wonder if anyone else has the same experience, and whether the sleeve materials is the true cause?

It’s very common with RTI pressings from the ’90s and early 2000s.

The glue RTI used to attach the inner transparent plastic sleeve to the outer paper sleeve can cause a chemical reaction that leaves stripes on the record. I have a few like that myself, but none of them are damaged to the point of causing any audible issues.

 

[UEM]

Tony,
Just curiosity: (Sorry - kind of Off-Topic )
Which version of the Decca 4769546 (originally from 1962 ! – the climax of DECCA recordings ! ) do you have ?
In "discogs" I find quite a few , from different countries or pressings ? – including a Mono !

Thanks & Regards
Urs

PS: I’ve just down-loaded a “poor quality YouTube version” of another 1983 double LP – but the MUSIC is great !