Brinkmann Balance vs. J. Sikora Reference- Battle of the $50K Belt Drives

[fbhifi]

Well, it’s time for a new turntable. I’ve distilled the potential candidates down to these two. There are certainly others, but for the purposes of this thread I’m interested in focusing on these, at least for now…. Both are well reviewed, processionally, both come from long established well pedigreed manufacturers, both are high mass belt drives. And, both are priced similarly.

There is one distinct design philosophy difference. The Balance is the Porsche 911 of the turntable world. The basic platform has remained, essentially, unchanged since its introduction in 1985. That original design has been incrementally improved upon for the last, almost, 40 years. I’ve owned many 911 iterations over the years including, coincidentally, a 1978 911 SC and ‘87 911 3.2, both great cars on the same platform and, germane to this discussion, the 3.2 was a considerably better car than the SC. I do believe in and embrace this evolutionary approach to automotive manufacturing. The question is- does this approach directly translate in the high end turntable world or is one better off buying a more “modern” design like the J. Sikora?

I listen primarily to classical and ‘50s-‘70s jazz. I do have my days with Hendrix, Floyd and Zeppelin, but with less frequency than the former genres. I plan to mount my Durand Tosca and Etsuro Gold on whichever TT makes the final cut. I look forward to everyone’s thoughts. Franz

 

[Tangram]

Great question and well-introduced. Hopefully commenters stay on-topic! I have zero first-hand knowledge of either turntable but I’ll follow with interest.

 

[No Regrets]

I have to say that you have narrowed your selection down to two, really great turntables and I think that you could live happily with either one!

I've never had the pleasure of hearing both tables side by side in the same system (hopefully if other members have, they will be willing to chime in here and share their thoughts) so please take what I have to say with a grain of salt.

I had just made a post last night on a J Sikora thread. I will copy and paste what I had written here...

"I truly felt that the system at Axpona last year that used the J. Sikora Reference table/KVMax arm, along with the Doshi tubed electronics and Joseph Audio Graphene Pearl speakers reproduced the best sound by far of the entire show, imho.

The Reference had a solidity and foundation to the music that I did not hear elsewhere. Not only that, but the dynamics were explosive, the texture of the music was tactile and had real presence! No hint of wow/flutter, no mis-timing of the music at all. If I had the cash, I would have bought the entire system on display, just as it was.... it was that nice! I spent a few hours each day of the 3 day show listening to that system... I couldn't get enough of it! I hit all the other top high end vinyl rooms as well. Some were nice, others not so much (maybe due to the limitations of the room they were in) but none of the other room's music connected with me in such an emotional and visceral way in which the J. Sikora Reference room did. I'll be attending AXPONA again in April and we'll see if it makes the same kind of impact on me as it did last year... looking forward to it either way though.

I don't understand everything that Sikora is doing with this design, but it certainly is working well to my ears. If I decide to get a end game turntable, the Reference will likely be it."

I have also heard the Brinkman Balance with the Ront tube power supply. Again, a very nice table! One that I have admired for a great many of years! I have also spent time with the AMG Forte, which I believe has similar design characteristics, but not quite in the same league as the Balance.

Going from my memory, if it were me, I would be choosing the Sikora Reference. I felt, imho, that the Balance was more polite sounding, more restrained sounding, more dark sounding. The Sikora, really comes to life! Puts the flesh on on the bones! Gets your blood flowing! It engages me and it just sounded RIGHT to my ears.

Now, would I feel that same way if comparing both tables, side by side in the same system? I don't know. But of all the times that I had heard the Balance in various systems... that's how it came across to me - once I had heard the Sikora Reference.

Buying tables are is so difficult these days... so many variables. Unless you can compare them with the same arm/cartridge/phonoamp, etc how will you ever really know what's what???

Again, I admire both tables very much. When you get to this level... maybe what is important is: build quality, speed control, dealer support and then finally - the quality of the vinyl pressings you choose to play

Good luck with your decision.... please share your journey with us all so we can live vicariously through you

Best wishes to all,
Don

 

[bonzo75]

Well, it’s time for a new turntable. I’ve distilled the potential candidates down to these two. There are certainly others, but for the purposes of this thread I’m interested in focusing on these, at least for now…. Both are well reviewed, processionally, both come from long established well pedigreed manufacturers, both are high mass belt drives. And, both are priced similarly.

There is one distinct design philosophy difference. The Balance is the Porsche 911 of the turntable world. The basic platform has remained, essentially, unchanged since its introduction in 1985. That original design has been incrementally improved upon for the last, almost, 40 years. I’ve owned many 911 iterations over the years including, coincidentally, a 1978 911 SC and ‘87 911 3.2, both great cars on the same platform and, germane to this discussion, the 3.2 was a considerably better car than the SC. I do believe in and embrace this evolutionary approach to automotive manufacturing. The question is- does this approach directly translate in the high end turntable world or is one better off buying a more “modern” design like the J. Sikora?

I listen primarily to classical and ‘50s-‘70s jazz. I do have my days with Hendrix, Floyd and Zeppelin, but with less frequency than the former genres. I plan to mount my Durand Tosca and Etsuro Gold on whichever TT makes the final cut. I look forward to everyone’s thoughts. Franz

i have been listening to classical for over 5 years on the Brinkmann balance of a friend local to me (he unfortunately sold his house in Jan and will relocate). Vienna auditioned many TTs before choosing this, and he measured all the ones he auditioned. Fremer and the SAT designer both rate it highly to punch higher than some other pricier tables. Either way, the price performance ratio is great. The Tosca is a very good, excellent arm. You would go a long way changing your cartridge. Replace the etsuro gold with the Dava. If required. Kcin in Canada owns the Balance with both the Dava and the etsuro gold, so just spend two days there listening to both.

My tastes are classical with some rock from led zep etc. Kcin is more rock, but you can carry your LPs

 

[dminches]

Ked, have you listened to the J.Sikora tables (standard Max or Reference) in any systems?

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

I would also add the Kuzma XL DC as just one extra TT to look into if you can (unless you have already considered it and it doesn't appeal to you) !

 

[bonzo75]

Ked, have you listened to the J.Sikora tables (standard Max or Reference) in any systems?

i have never compared, so no comment for or against. I have heard both the top model and the lower model multiple times as our Lampi distro in the U.K. does it.

 

[No Regrets]

Ked, have you listened to the J.Sikora tables (standard Max or Reference) in any systems?

Hi,

I'm not sure if you have the ability to attend AXPONA (not far from the O'Hare Airport - suburbs of Chicago) this April, but it looks like J. Sikora will be presenting again along with Nick Doshi (tubed electronics) and Jeff Joseph (amazing loudspeakers) - both of which are true gentleman and absolutely wonderful to talk with, and imho are true genius in their respective audio fields - in the Nirvana A room. My guess is they will have the Reference table/KVMax arm in that room. If that system sounds anything like it did last year, you certainly will not want to miss out on hearing this!

I would think they will have the Standard Max playing in room 642 along with Devore Fidelity. I'm not sure of which electronics they will be paired with, but my guess it will certainly be worth the visit!

Just a disclaimer... I have absolutely no vested interest in any of the before mentioned manufacturers. I just simply appreciate what they all have accomplished over the years with their products. Truly impressive to hear!

Best wishes,
Don

 

[dminches]

I have gone to Axpona each of the past 10 years and will be there again. I am very familiar with the Doshi / J.Sikora / Jeff Joseph room. I even help set it up one year. I have the Doshi line, phono and tape stages. This is why J.Sikora is on my short list with the Brinkmann. As you or others have stated, the biggest issue is not being able to hear these tables in one's own room. I do want to look more closely at the Reference vs. the Standard Max.

 

[No Regrets]

I have gone to Axpona each of the past 10 years and will be there again. I am very familiar with the Doshi / J.Sikora / Jeff Joseph room. I even help set it up one year. I have the Doshi line, phono and tape stages. This is why J.Sikora is on my short list with the Brinkmann. As you or others have stated, the biggest issue is not being able to hear these tables in one's own room. I do want to look more closely at the Reference vs. the Standard Max.

That's awesome! I used to go all the time as well, but took a hiatus when Covid hit the scene. I have too many underlying health issues to risk getting that.

I really wish J Sikora would have both the Reference and the Standard Max together in the Nirvana room. That would be incredible to hear them side by side.

Last year, I have to say that I didn't care for the Standard Max playing in the Dr Vinyls room. The music just didn't connect with me in the same way as the Reference did in the Doshi/Joseph Audio room did. Now, was that due to being in a much smaller room? Or maybe because he insisted on using the Integrityhifi Tru-Glider arm, or was it due to the DS Audio cartridge, or the amps and speakers that I was not familiar with? Or maybe I didn't gel with the type of music he was playing every time I went and visited his room. I honestly have no idea.

I have to believe that the Standard Max is quite capable of sounding better than what I heard it at the show though. It has so many design likenesses of the Reference... cut from a very similar cloth, so to speak. I will say that I am really looking forward to hearing the Standard Max paired with Devore Fidelity and whichever electronics they choose to use. I'm hoping that I come away with a much better impression of it this year!

I'm curious what you thought of the Standard Max in the Dr Vinyls room last year? I listen primarily to classical and jazz. Whenever I visited his room, he was always playing rock. The guests seemed to like it, but it's just not my genre. I didn't ask him to play anything else as I didn't want to take away from the enjoyment of the majority listening.

Best wishes,
Don

 

[dminches]

I'm curious what you thought of the Standard Max in the Dr Vinyls room last year? I listen primarily to classical and jazz. Whenever I visited his room, he was always playing rock. The guests seemed to like it, but it's just not my genre. I didn't ask him to play anything else as I didn't want to take away from the enjoyment of the majority listening.

Best wishes,
Don

I honestly don't remember the Standard Max from last year. It may have been due to the fact that I was less focused on turntables. I do know that the Doshi room sounded great. Of course, that is also due to the Jeff Joseph Pearls.

 

[fbhifi]

Thanks for all the response, so far. A few months ago I visited Jacob Heilbrunn. I had a great time, and was there, primarily, to listen to his AG G3 speakers. He has a TechDAS AF Zero TT and a J. Sikora. He recently favorably reviewed the J. Sikora Standard Max and, if I’m not mistaken, that’s the JS model he had. Perhaps he bought the review unit. I wish I’d looked more closely to see which model he had, but I’m pretty sure it was the Standard Max. He certainly could have gone with a Reference instead. His choice of the Standard Max is food for thought! BTW, I felt that the Sikora absolutely held its own against the legendary AF Zero.

 

[Lagonda]

i have been listening to classical for over 5 years on the Brinkmann balance of a friend local to me (he unfortunately sold his house in Jan and will relocate). Vienna auditioned many TTs before choosing this, and he measured all the ones he auditioned. Fremer and the SAT designer both rate it highly to punch higher than some other pricier tables. Either way, the price performance ratio is great. The Tosca is a very good, excellent arm. You would go a long way changing your cartridge. Replace the etsuro gold with the Dava. If required. Kcin in Canada owns the Balance with both the Dava and the etsuro gold, so just spend two days there listening to both.

My tastes are classical with some rock from led zep etc. Kcin is more rock, but you can carry your LPs

You are a trip Ked, you just invited someone to Kcin's house for 2 days without consulting him !

 

[tima]

The question is- does this approach directly translate in the high end turntable world or is one better off buying a more “modern” design like the J. Sikora?

I don't think it does translate and I'm wary of making audio choices through analogy with automobiles.

But, be that as it may, here's a question for you: is either of the J.Sikora tables comparable to the Brinkman Balance if the Balance is using the RonT power supply? Most all Brinkman owners I've heard from suggest the RonT power supply makes a pretty significant improvement.

edit: Former forum member 'Audire' known elsewhere as JoeN recently switched from a J.Sikora table to a TechDas AF1. He is on audioaficionado.org and other forums. You might touch base with him for his take ... but I won't invite you to his house.

 

[bonzo75]

The question is- does this approach directly translate in the high end turntable world or is one better off buying a more “modern” design?

without comparing the two specific tables, in general the answer to the above question is Yes. I have found that in hifi initial designs are rushed and latter ones much improved on. And sometimes it can be that after a few iterations the designer hits the limit and further iterations take a step back.

 

[DasguteOhr]

I have to say that you have narrowed your selection down to two, really great turntables and I think that you could live happily with either one!

I've never had the pleasure of hearing both tables side by side in the same system (hopefully if other members have, they will be willing to chime in here and share their thoughts) so please take what I have to say with a grain of salt.

I had just made a post last night on a J Sikora thread. I will copy and paste what I had written here...

"I truly felt that the system at Axpona last year that used the J. Sikora Reference table/KVMax arm, along with the Doshi tubed electronics and Joseph Audio Graphene Pearl speakers reproduced the best sound by far of the entire show, imho.

The Reference had a solidity and foundation to the music that I did not hear elsewhere. Not only that, but the dynamics were explosive, the texture of the music was tactile and had real presence! No hint of wow/flutter, no mis-timing of the music at all. If I had the cash, I would have bought the entire system on display, just as it was.... it was that nice! I spent a few hours each day of the 3 day show listening to that system... I couldn't get enough of it! I hit all the other top high end vinyl rooms as well. Some were nice, others not so much (maybe due to the limitations of the room they were in) but none of the other room's music connected with me in such an emotional and visceral way in which the J. Sikora Reference room did. I'll be attending AXPONA again in April and we'll see if it makes the same kind of impact on me as it did last year... looking forward to it either way though.

I don't understand everything that Sikora is doing with this design, but it certainly is working well to my ears. If I decide to get a end game turntable, the Reference will likely be it."

I have also heard the Brinkman Balance with the Ront tube power supply. Again, a very nice table! One that I have admired for a great many of years! I have also spent time with the AMG Forte, which I believe has similar design characteristics, but not quite in the same league as the Balance.

Going from my memory, if it were me, I would be choosing the Sikora Reference. I felt, imho, that the Balance was more polite sounding, more restrained sounding, more dark sounding. The Sikora, really comes to life! Puts the flesh on on the bones! Gets your blood flowing! It engages me and it just sounded RIGHT to my ears.

Now, would I feel that same way if comparing both tables, side by side in the same system? I don't know. But of all the times that I had heard the Balance in various systems... that's how it came across to me - once I had heard the Sikora Reference.

Buying tables are is so difficult these days... so many variables. Unless you can compare them with the same arm/cartridge/phonoamp, etc how will you ever really know what's what???

Again, I admire both tables very much. When you get to this level... maybe what is important is: build quality, speed control, dealer support and then finally - the quality of the vinyl pressings you choose to play

Good luck with your decision.... please share your journey with us all so we can live vicariously through you

Best wishes to all,
Don

like you said, too many unknowns. Whoever adjusted the cartridge alone decides what something sounds like. The best way is to make a tape recording from both turntables with some songs that you know. then listen to the tape in your home system and decide which one you like better. A direct comparison is almost impossible.
The advantage is that you can listen to it over and over again, it doesn't depend on your day condition

 

[tima]

The question is- does this approach directly translate in the high end turntable world or is one better off buying a more “modern” design like the J. Sikora?

without comparing the two specific tables, in general the answer to the above question is Yes. I have found that in hifi initial designs are rushed and latter ones much improved on. And sometimes it can be that after a few iterations the designer hits the limit and further iterations take a step back.

??

I think you got it backwards. His example was comparing a mature design (Brinkman) that has gone through multiple iterations to the modern JSikora which is less mature. Or are you suggesting in the case of Brinkman "the designer hits the limit and further iterations take a step back." ?

 

[bonzo75]

??

I think you got it backwards. His example was comparing a mature design (Brinkman) that has gone through multiple iterations to the modern JSikora which is less mature. Or are you suggesting in the case of Brinkman "the designer hits the limit and further iterations take a step back." ?

That's why I started with "without comparing the two specific tables, in general" - I was not referring to BB vs Sikora.

But in general reiterations are good. and the later iterations are better than the initial ones. But after sometime, it plateaus, then goes downhill as the designer just keeps reinventing for more money. Or rather, not every "upgrade" is necessarily one.

 

[tima]

But in general reiterations are good. and the later iterations are better than the initial ones. But after sometime, it plateaus, then goes downhill as the designer just keeps reinventing for more money. Or rather, not every "upgrade" is necessarily one.

I can't think of models that plateaued or gone backwards -- which doesn't mean there aren't any. Something to consider is iteration frequency and iteration improvement. How much value Is there in upgrading to the next release?

Some manufacturers will churn out a new unit every N years, regardless. For Audio Research N = 4. Between 2009 and 2021 they released 4 phonostages and 4 linestages, with the 1st and 3rd being factory upgradeable to the next iteration. I can't say they plateaued or went downhill but the sonic differences, while noticeable were not leaps. The circuit design of each being fundamentally that of the 1st iteration.

Wilson took the Watt/Puppy through 8 generations before the Sasha W/P. 1989 to 2007 - one every ~27 months. First Sasha in 2009.

Ideally improvements can be retrofitted to earlier generations. I see more of that in preamps and linestages (also easier to ship) than turntables, amps and speakers. A few companies (Atma-Sphere for example) will give you a new warranty with an upgraded unit.

 

[bonzo75]

I can't think of models that plateaued or gone backwards -- which doesn't mean there aren't any. Something to consider is iteration frequency and iteration improvement. How much value Is there in upgrading to the next release?

Some manufacturers will churn out a new unit every N years, regardless. For Audio Research N = 4. Between 2009 and 2021 they released 4 phonostages and 4 linestages, with the 1st and 3rd being factory upgradeable to the next iteration. I can't say they plateaued or went downhill but the sonic differences, while noticeable were not leaps. The circuit design of each being fundamentally that of the 1st iteration.

Wilson took the Watt/Puppy through 8 generations before the Sasha W/P. 1989 to 2007 - one every ~27 months. First Sasha in 2009.

Ideally improvements can be retrofitted to earlier generations. I see more of that in preamps and linestages (also easier to ship) than turntables, amps and speakers. A few companies (Atma-Sphere for example) will give you a new warranty with an upgraded unit.

the other thing is long standing companies go through management/designer changes so that itself will affect the quality of the product