Best Isolation Systems for Amps

ddk

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David, you said, "I like proper mass loading to other types of stands and racks." I don't understand because it shouldn't be an either-or, but rather it should be both-and. In other words, for a methodology to even stand a chance at functioning at its optimal, the methodology must be carried thru to its fullest extent from A to Z or start to finish.


I don't disagree, everything is important, must be properly engineered and manufactured, this doesn't mean complex.

For example, a few pages back I included a picture of an empty rack I use which adheres to the resonant energy transfer methodology. But that picture doesn't quite tell the whole story. For example, my mono-block amps are under roughly 1000 pounds of compressive force into its shelf (I by-pass standard footers) to ensure my methodology is taken to the utmost extreme when attempting to create a superior conduit for mechanical energy to travel between normally disparate objects.

You're very tight lipped about your rack and its impossible to make any kind of visual assumption based on your dark pictures :)!

As for your trick to making sure that the shelf / materials don't randomly push / suck out certain frequencies? In my experience, this potentially becomes an issue only when inferior materials, designs, and/or methods are employed.

Not my trick, there's no shortage of hype, BS and bad engineering (if you want to call it that!) in this industry.

david
 

ddk

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Okay, my way of looking at that situation would be different - to me, it's saying that the components sitting on those shelves are not sufficiently resistant to vibrational interference, and changing the shelving system is altering the type of vibration that the components experience - which modulates the sound of the system. Vary the vibration experienced, and that varies the sound. The ideal would be components which are not affected by this, but if this is not possible then, yes, determine which shelving system does the "least damage", which best attenuates the vibrations which are the worst offenders, for the set of components one has.

I hear the same issues from various brands and types of equipment when using these shelves, like most aftermarket footers the negative side effects seem to be universal wherever I heard them.

david
 

stehno

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... Not my trick, there's no shortage of hype, BS and bad engineering (if you want to call it that!) in this industry.

david

David, please tell me you're joking. Otherwise I ain't gonna' get no sleep tonight. :p

BTW, here's a little better pic of my all solid steel rack.
 
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stehno

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My racking system.
 

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ddk

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David, please tell me you're joking. Otherwise I ain't gonna' get no sleep tonight. :p

Let me help you sleep with this lovely lullaby

[video]http://www.ebaumsworld.com/videos/horror-lullaby/988547/[/video]






How do you connect the equipment to your rack? Or do you use two side by side?

Edit- 2nd look the picture looks like a computer rendering, do you have an actual pict of your rack with equipment on it?

david
 

stehno

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Let me help you sleep with this lovely lullaby

[video]http://www.ebaumsworld.com/videos/horror-lullaby/988547/[/video]

How do you connect the equipment to your rack? Or do you use two side by side?

david

I've designed clamping systems (not shown) out of T-6061 aluminum that compress the components down onto the 2 black pods you see on each shelf. Though I would never own a component I couldn't compress, I also provide means of issuing a 3-pod system for the odd component to rest free-standing.
 

stehno

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Let me help you sleep with this lovely lullaby

[video]http://www.ebaumsworld.com/videos/horror-lullaby/988547/[/video]

How do you connect the equipment to your rack? Or do you use two side by side?

Edit- 2nd look the picture looks like a computer rendering, do you have an actual pict of your rack with equipment on it?

david

Here's one of my racks in Hong Kong with the Vekian transport and DAC. Here I had to design custom clamps because the Vekian contains glass inserts on top because Mike, the owner of Vekian claimed the glass improved the sound. Go figure.

I've no doubt the sonic gains potential were compromised as a result of the custom clamps' limitations but they still seemed pretty impressed with the results.


Audio Exotics 2-shelf 1080.jpg
 

ddk

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Here's one of my racks in Hong Kong with the Vekian transport and DAC. Here I had to design custom clamps because the Vekian contains glass inserts on top because Mike, the owner of Vekian claimed the glass improved the sound. Go figure.

I've no doubt the sonic gains potential were compromised as a result of the custom clamps' limitations but they still seemed pretty impressed with the results.


View attachment 28129

Very interesting, do you have a solution for turntables?
david
 

fas42

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I hear the same issues from various brands and types of equipment when using these shelves, like most aftermarket footers the negative side effects seem to be universal wherever I heard them. david
That is very intriguing ... perhaps the shelving in its own right is making a subtle sound, ringing or resonating in sympathy with the acoustic sound output in the room from the speakers.
 

stehno

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Very interesting, do you have a solution for turntables?
david

Universal clamps for turntables? You're kidding, right? :) Cuz most every turntable worth owning has a design that is unique and different and special. But I can design a custom clamping system for some-to-many special turntables.

I've no doubt I can greatly improve the sonics of most any turntable in spite of the fact that most turntables have been engineered with layer upon layer of "isolation" techniques. If you think of a crimped or frayed wire or a faulty switch or even a loose lightbulb in a lamp, unless there's a complete severing of the electrical conduit, some of the electricity still makes its way to illuminate the light bulb. That's the power of electricity.

Similarly, extreme versions of mechanical energy transfer will dig deep almost seemingly beyond what others have tried to do to squash vibrations and still provide very significant benefits. That's just some of the power of resonant energy transfer.

But even if a turntable was free-standing (no clamps) on 3 or 4 pods anchored at the shelf, the sonic gains should still be rather impressive.
 
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microstrip

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Here's one of my racks in Hong Kong with the Vekian transport and DAC. Here I had to design custom clamps because the Vekian contains glass inserts on top because Mike, the owner of Vekian claimed the glass improved the sound.


Just the obvious question - if you do not like the way the designer wanted his electronics to sound why did you get it?

It seems to me you are changing the sound of the equipment systematically, creating new paths to mechanical energy - probably replacing existing resonances with new ones.
 

stehno

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Just the obvious question - if you do not like the way the designer wanted his electronics to sound why did you get it?

I've never heard the Vekian. This is a picture of one of my two racks that the Hong Kong distributor has for both of their $500k showroom systems.

It seems to me you are changing the sound of the equipment systematically, creating new paths to mechanical energy - probably replacing existing resonances with new ones.

Not quite sure I fully understand your implications. But among other things the Hong Kong distributor called my racks his greatest find in recent years. So if per some odd chance you are correct in what you speculate, I guess that's a good thing, no? Especially when the versions they own are maybe 40% the performers of my current version.
 

PeterA

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I've never heard the Vekian. This is a picture of one of my two racks that the Hong Kong distributor has for both of their $500k showroom systems.



Not quite sure I fully understand your implications. But among other things the Hong Kong distributor called my racks his greatest find in recent years. So if per some odd chance you are correct in what you speculate, I guess that's a good thing, no? Especially when the versions they own are maybe 40% the performers of my current version.

Are you still producing and designing new versions? I had assumed you had stopped working on these solutions when you wrote that you were out of business. Do you have a photo of these racks in your own system that you would like to share? I'm really curious how they would look with a turntable.

Also, what do you think of active isolation platforms like the Herzan? I presume you would think that internal vibrations from within the component and those hitting the sides of the component from the speakers would have no way to drain out if the component is sitting on an active (or passive) isolation platform.

How does one prevent floor born, earth generated vibrations from traveling up your rack and reaching the clamped component?
 

harleyguy

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There is a new amp stand on the market called MODULUM from Montreal.They say it inproves your amps by 25%,At the under carrage they have harmonic absorbers called wings.The build quality is stunning.the looks are stunning,And I must say what a difference in the sound
 

fas42

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Would just repeat, that any audio equipment that is sensitive to vibration to the degree implied in these posts is flawed - good engineering of the internals should make the behaviour essentially impervious to movement - unless it is extreme, such as directly in the path of heavy bass frequencies.
 

stehno

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Are you still producing and designing new versions? I had assumed you had stopped working on these solutions when you wrote that you were out of business. Do you have a photo of these racks in your own system that you would like to share? I'm really curious how they would look with a turntable.

Also, what do you think of active isolation platforms like the Herzan? I presume you would think that internal vibrations from within the component and those hitting the sides of the component from the speakers would have no way to drain out if the component is sitting on an active (or passive) isolation platform.

How does one prevent floor born, earth generated vibrations from traveling up your rack and reaching the clamped component?


Peter, every now and again I still perform some R&D when the spirit moves me and a few years ago I essentially doubled my product's already outstanding performance.

I've got a few dimly lit photos in my profile here. But here's a pretty good overview of assembly and initial comments from Audio Exotics' website forum when they received the first 4-shelf rack including initial comments.


http://audioexotics.hk/forum/#/discussion/8800/what-the-freak-am-i-doing-again

As for the aesthetics of a turntable placed on the upper shelf, just as I've done for my mini-monoblock amps installed onto a single shelf side-by-side, I can easily arrange a 3 or 4 pod stance either approximate or pretty exacting so that a given turntable looks as trophied as any other component placed on a shelf.

As for my thoughts on Herzan's active isolation platform? I've already said a few posts ago that when it comes to a sensitive instrument's perforamnce, I never use the term "isolation" in a positive sense. When a $50,000 raise is available from one's employer just for the asking, why would anybody ask or settle for $100 or at best $1000? Unless of course they were unaware their employer was more than willing to freely give the $50,000. More specifically about active vibration isolation, besides the inferior attempt to "isolate" vibrations that severely cripples the performance of every last sensitive instrument which happen to be mechanical in nature, I don't see any reason why anything more than a mechanical solution would be necessary.

As for floor-borne vibrations, they are a non-issue and always have been when related to sensitive instruments' performance. Now if you're talking about earthquakes, 18-wheelers driving 70 mph right outside your front door, or 400 lbs. ladies dancing in front of your turntable causing your stylus to skip 14 grooves, well, that's shock and impact and that's a whole nuther subject for which I don't spend any time.
 

NorthStar

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