Balanced Audio Technology vs .........

[newmill]

I just stumbled upon this forum and must say I am really impressed with it. Seems many of you are as ocd about this hobby as I am This is my first post on this forum. I hope I don't bore you guys with this question, as you have probably answered many similar ones already, but here it goes:
I have always enjoyed hifi as long as I can remember. I am on the upgrade tread mill once again. I am currently driving my Sonus Faber Elipsas with a pair of Bel Canto Ref 1000 mkii's. I recently brought home a Bryston 14BSST2 and tried it for several days before I took it back. My overall opinion of this amp was not that favorable. It was very detailed, very powerful, and presented a very clinical sound to my ear. It did some things better than the Bel Cantos, but listening fatigue was a major issue. A few days later I brought home a BAT VK600 SE. This was such a nice improvement for me. This was smoother on the top and revealed luscious mids and controlled bass. I could listen for hours. My question to you guys is; what other makes should I audition before I make my next amplifier purchase? I want this to be my last amp. (I know, famous last words lol)

 

[Mobiusman]

Welcome.

I have a BAT VK 32-se and love it. I have had many preamps, most tube and find this one special in many ways and a tremendous value on the Audiogon market especially compared to some more well known brands I have also had a Bryston 4b SST2 and felt the same about it as you. I now have a Spectral 260 which despite lore, works quite well with the BAT as long as one uses MIT cables, which is unfortunately really needed.

I like the Spectral so much that I just bought a new pair of speakers that I hope will sound better than what I am replacing (ML Montis), which are a true deal at $10k and much cheaper if you buy mine. The Montis works well with everything but a Spectral because of .7 ohm dip in the impedance curve which triggers the protection circuit. Having said that I love the Spectral so much that I chose to keep it and buy speakers that cost 4 times the Montis, (Vivid G3's) because there are things the Spectral can do that few if any amps can. My best friend Marty on this forum has the big Spectral 400's and they are wonderful and obviously better than my 260, but not by much, with the 300 sounding more like the 400's with the power of the 260 and an intermediate cost. If you go Spectral you have to decide about whether or not you want to go SS Spectral on the preamp, which is too much SS for me. You can also use VTL preamps with Spectral amps as do some on this forum. Remember part of the cost of a Spectral amp is MIT cables (I use Oracle MA-X).

 

[newmill]

Thanks for the reply. I don't know where I can hear these amps in Canada? Would love to audition them.

 

[jfrech]

You should also listen to a Bat Rex tube amp. Other's I'd consider are a Ayre MXR's and a Nagra VPA. System matching and listener preferences will come into play also. What's your preamp and cable choices?

 

[newmill]

Thanks for the reply. Just read some reviews quickly about the Ayre and the Nagra amplifier options. These are 2 very highly regarded amps. The Ayre might be a better choice for me, due to the crazy amount of heat generated by the Nagra tubes (575F!). I am going to search for one to hear, or bring one home to try. I have decided to be much more patient in my evaluations this time around; after all this is a large part of the fun in this hobby. I am currently using the BelCanto Pre3 for a preamp. It has been modded and works nicely with the ref 1000's. I realize that this preamp is not a keeper either, and wonder if having it in the system while sampling different amps may be giving me a skewed opinion of the amps I test. I currently use JPS Labs Superconductor 2 balanced interconnects, Nordost Tyr spaeaker cable, MIT Proline Referance AES/EBU cable, and PS Audio AC5 AC cables. The MIT cable between the Bryston BDP1/BDA1 is an absolute game changer. It is wonderful. I believe the PS audio are a very weak link in this cable loom. Please keep the options coming. I am very appreciative of all the advice or opinions.

 

[Mobiusman]

Thanks for the reply. I don't know where I can hear these amps in Canada? Would love to audition them.

Call Spectral in Sunnyvale and they will tell who their Canadian Dealers are. I am sure that they exist. IMO, their products are truly special, could do with some tube softening/musicality. Unfortunately, the MIT's or Spectral cables definitely are needed and make a huge difference. I used to not believe this, but it is definitely true.

 

[jfrech]

Thanks for the reply. Just read some reviews quickly about the Ayre and the Nagra amplifier options. These are 2 very highly regarded amps. The Ayre might be a better choice for me, due to the crazy amount of heat generated by the Nagra tubes (575F!). I am going to search for one to hear, or bring one home to try. I have decided to be much more patient in my evaluations this time around; after all this is a large part of the fun in this hobby. I am currently using the BelCanto Pre3 for a preamp. It has been modded and works nicely with the ref 1000's. I realize that this preamp is not a keeper either, and wonder if having it in the system while sampling different amps may be giving me a skewed opinion of the amps I test. I currently use JPS Labs Superconductor 2 balanced interconnects, Nordost Tyr spaeaker cable, MIT Proline Referance AES/EBU cable, and PS Audio AC5 AC cables. The MIT cable between the Bryston BDP1/BDA1 is an absolute game changer. It is wonderful. I believe the PS audio are a very weak link in this cable loom. Please keep the options coming. I am very appreciative of all the advice or opinions.

It could, hard to say, regarding your current preamp. Usually a amp and pre from the same mfg is the safest route...a good dealer helped me with my pre and amp choices...which are from diff mfg's. The Nagra MSA's (or VPA's while the tubes are VERY hot, they don't emit that much heat into the room) with the Nagra Jazz preamp is a formidable combo. End of the road type of stuff. Ditto Ayre KXR/MXR. And I'd say the same about the current Bat Rex pre and amp. All present things a little differently and the heat signatures are diff...really the main reason I had to move away from my former BAT VK150SE's

You have a great set of components already !

 

[newmill]

All present things a little differently and the heat signatures are diff...really the main reason I had to move away from my former BAT VK150SE's

Great information, Thanks. Can you tell me what exactly were the issues with the BAT VK150SE's? Was it just a heat issue?

 

[jfrech]

Great information, Thanks. Can you tell me what exactly were the issues with the BAT VK150SE's? Was it just a heat issue?

Just heat. I live in Texas, room upstairs...my A/C barely keeps up. The amps are very good ! If you like the VK600SE I suspect you'll like their tube amps even more...

 

[Brucemck2]

BAT VK150SE's are really terrific amps for all but the most challenging loads, and as big tube amps go, aren't over the top heat generators.

FWIW, I found the Bryston 28B SST2s to be markedly superior to the 14's.

The 150s have great fluidity and flow, while the 28s have great precision and power. Former are "warmer" and latter are "quieter", with both being fluid, powerful, and quiet by any reasonable audiophile

 

[newmill]

BAT VK150SE's are really terrific amps for all but the most challenging loads, and as big tube amps go, aren't over the top heat generators.

FWIW, I found the Bryston 28B SST2s to be markedly superior to the 14's.

The 150s have great fluidity and flow, while the 28s have great precision and power. Former are "warmer" and latter are "quieter", with both being fluid, powerful, and quiet by any reasonable audiophile

I'll add the BAT VK150SE to the list of potential upgrades. One thing I'm afraid of, is going to a tube amp. I've never owned one and I'm not sure about the pros and cons. It seems though, the more I read, the more the tube amps seem to have larger share of the higher end market. If this is what is going to give me the sound we all are after, then I definitely have to explore this option. How do you all feel about the Research Audio Reference 75. My Sonus Faber Elipsas have a 10" driver and a sensitivity of 91 db.

Surprised about your findings with the bigger Bryston. The 14BSST2 made my ears hurt!

 

[jfrech]

I'll add the BAT VK150SE to the list of potential upgrades. One thing I'm afraid of, is going to a tube amp. I've never owned one and I'm not sure about the pros and cons. It seems though, the more I read, the more the tube amps seem to have larger share of the higher end market. If this is what is going to give me the sound we all are after, then I definitely have to explore this option. How do you all feel about the Research Audio Reference 75. My Sonus Faber Elipsas have a 10" driver and a sensitivity of 91 db.

Surprised about your findings with the bigger Bryston. The 14BSST2 made my ears hurt!

Most modern tube amps require little maintenance and really nothing to be worried about. The BAT VK150SE's the only thing is you loose a few output tubes...it's easier than changing a light bulb. Let it cool down a little. pop out one tube pop in the new tube. A fuse might also need to be replaced. A LED tells you which tube is faulty. Only thing to be careful on here is to buy tubes in matched pairs. The Audio Research is another great amp to add to your list. The 75SE has the meters built in and you'll need to bias the tubes, but again use the manual, the included screwdriver...watch the meters move and you adjust the bias screw. It's all pretty easy...

91db is pretty efficient, if your room isn't huge and you don't crank things way way up...you should be happy. You could also go to the ARC 150SE

The BAT and ARC amps will sound different. The BAT being more rich in the midrange, more weight on the notes, and the ARC having a bigger/wider soundstage. They are both good it's like Miller light vs Bud light. Some like one, some like the other.

 

[newmill]

Was in a local dealership today and asked about the BAT VK600SE compared to the tube version. He said the tube versions are not as authoritative as the ss. He didn't have one to listen to. I did get to hear the BAT VK600SE with a moon preamplifier, and this sound was wonderful. The Bat preamps he had in stock were a little lower in the product range and did not sound as nice as the moon.

 

[morricab]

Was in a local dealership today and asked about the BAT VK600SE compared to the tube version. He said the tube versions are not as authoritative as the ss. He didn't have one to listen to. I did get to hear the BAT VK600SE with a moon preamplifier, and this sound was wonderful. The Bat preamps he had in stock were a little lower in the product range and did not sound as nice as the moon.

The tube versions sound more transparent and open than the SS amps from BAT. Authoritative will depend on the speakers but the BAT VK150s will drive your speakers effortlessly.

 

[johndoe21ro]

Why don't you try the new VK-655SE and see if it rings for you?

 

[newmill]

Why don't you try the new VK-655SE and see if it rings for you?

I have a lead on a nice new VK600SE.
I noticed in your sig that you using the VK600SE. Curious to know how you like it, and if there are any things you dislike about it. Have you tried the VK655SE? What are your thoughts? Thanks for the reply.

 

[KeithR]

As a prior BAT owner, always preferred the tube amps to Victor's SS versions. I did have a few blown fuses with them however, so not completely maintenance free.

that said, the VK250SE was a little bugger of a SS amp- just not as well known as the 75/150s back in the day.

 

[newmill]

A quick update. I decided to jump into the world of tubes and picked up a little Known amp called Ars Sonum Fillarmenia. I'm shocked at how musical this thing is. I guess this is what I've been missing by avoiding tube gear. Wow what a little amp.

 

[johndoe21ro]

And almost two years later I've found your question... I'm glad you've found your 'magic' amp!