Opinion pls

[Dimfer]

I brought our 2021 G63 to our trusted independent shop (they had been servicing our Porsche Cayenne since 2010) for oil change & B3 service last Thursday. When we brought it in, dash is only showing the service reminder. They kept the vehicle overnite because according to them they had to wait for the cabin filters. They phoned me to pick up the vehicle next afternoon, and according to their mechanic (Steve) the headlight module is not working and showing a bunch of errors, and advised me to bring it to the dealer. I picked up the vehicle- now showing a different message on the dash - left low beam headlight not working. I brought it to the dealer right away, and now I am told that MB will not cover the problem because my original warranty expired on Sept 17, 2 days before the problem was reported, and the extended warranty does not cover it. The part alone is $1,200 and a full diagnosis is required.

I am 100% sure the warning on the dash is different now, but we do not know for sure if the shop or their crew caused the problem. At the same time, we could be facing a $2,000 repair cost here. If the problem was not caused by them, I have no problem paying to fix it (although I thought MB has poor product support by refusing to cover this on a $300k vehicle with 21,000 kms and 2 days past warranty period). But on the same token, I think the shop should be held responsible for it if they actually caused the problem.

Will appreciate your opinions and suggestions.

 

[Joel27]

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I manage a car stereo shop so my opinion may have some bearing. If a customer brought me a vehicle and had my tech put in a radio and the transmission failed upon driving it home. I would vehemently protest paying for transmission repairs because my installer was nowhere near that system. Now if I was putting in an amplifier and running a power wire through a firewall and after installation numerous error lights turned on, I would go over my entire installation looking for any place my installer may have inadvertently nicked a wire. If no problems were found then I would have the customer take the vehicle to a dealership. At the dealership, the customer must pay for his own diagnostic and he can bring me the results before authorizing any other work by the dealership. This way we can see what the potential cause of the problem was before we discuss to any concessions.

 

[Dimfer]

In this case the error codes showed up while the vehicle was on their possession., they printed the error codes and gave to me.

These codes were not present when we dropped off the vehicle. If it was present beforehand I would mention it to them when I booked it for service

 

[Joel27]

Completely hypothetical but the possibility of them messing something up, trying to fix it, and not being able to fix it could lead to why they kept it over night.

 

[Dimfer]

Completely hypothetical but the possibility of them messing something up, trying to fix it, and not being able to fix it could lead to why they kept it over night.

This is my suspicion as well, but I don’t know how to articulate it without offending them. I dropped off the vehicle at 9 am, the report attached was printed at 1:51pm, they phoned me at 3:30 saying that they have to keep the vehicle overnite because they did not realize it has 3 cabin filters and they just got the additional filter but they don’t want to rush installing it because they close shop at 4:30.

I had updated them that the warranty will not cover this issue hoping they would come forward and offer some help but they seem to dance around the issue. They would respond to the other contents of the email but says nothing about fixing the issue. Would it be offensive if I say this?

“I had been advised by MB and the dealer that the headlight console problem will not be covered by the warranty and I could be facing $2k repair bill. As I had mentioned to you, this headlight error message was not present when I brought the car to your shop that’s why it was not mentioned when I booked it for service. I would like to know if something happened while your technicians were working on the vehicle that might have caused the problem. If this was the case, I think your shop should bear the cost to repair the problem”.

Here is the report that they gave me, it looks like mostly programming related, but it was confirmed to me by the technician at MB that the module associated with this left headlight is now broken.

 

[Joel27]

I would not be offended if my customer approached me that way. So I looked up a B3 service which consists of; air filter, cabin filter, oil change, break check, spark plug replacement. If this is correct, I would be curious as to where the headlight lamp module is located in relation to the areas that were worked on.

I am not a Mercedes tech but from my knowledge of other problems that sound similar I'm wondering if they forgot to plug a module back in or if they inadvertently blew a fuse because it does not sound like the module is speaking to the vehicle diagnostic system properly.

I don't have any personal knowledge of that vehicle. These are just my musings but that's where I would start from a technical diagnostic standpoint.

 

[Dimfer]

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions and express your opinion.

When I brought it to the dealer, I was told the shop foreman took a look at the vehicle, and he concluded that the module is not working. My first reaction was disbelief that a module tucked somewhere would just die while the vehicle is parked or being serviced, unless the technician did something stupid. The service advisor said I need to bring the vehicle bad for deeper diagnostic, they don’t want to order the part right away because it is $1,200. I will bring it back and hope you are right, that it is something they just forgot to plug back in.

I am disappointed that MB won’t even consider fixing it under warranty that expired 2 days earlier, on a very expensive vehicle with only 21,000 kms. The service rep said MB is very strict this way, they will refuse coverage if you are over by just 1 km on the odometer. This is my wife’s vehicle and she’s disappointed. The salesman who sold us the vehicle is aware that I am in the market for another car, he’s been enticing me with the SL and the S class in the showroom, I am not sure now if I want to buy another MB.

 

[Joel27]

You're welcome.

I too am surprised that they're being such sticklers on the warranty, even though I do understand the primary goal of the company is not to lose money. I hope that everything gets taken care of satisfactorily and look forward to hearing about your update.

As for buying another MB I would be hesitant also but only because of the service they offer. Good luck.

 

[Dimfer]

I had been communicating with the indy shop that did the B3 service and the sales guy.

The shop pointed it out to me that the report was printed when they just started working on the vehicle and it showed the 66 occurances of the error, so the error had been there for a while since the vehicle is only driven on weekends, and did not become obvious because we have been using it during the day.

The sales guy that we are dealing with is now the sales manager, I know he is trying to help but according to him, he could not do much at this level because warranty repairs covered by MB is approved the head office. They did not charge me for the initial consultation and will do their best to help me out when I bring it back to do a more thorough scan, and we are hoping there is no broken part, at it just need re-programming. The vehicle sat in our garage not being used for extended time from March to June when I had an accident and we were using our other vehicles for the occasional doctors appointments and other short trips, and there were times when it was not on battery tender and the battery charge might have gone down too low and programming on some modules might have been erased. This is what we are hoping for, and will find out on Monday.

 

[Joel27]

Appreciate the update. It would be easy to see if the shop is telling the truth about when they started work on your vehicle based on your drop off time and I'm sure they have cameras with time stamps when they pull in vehicles. I have had to show customers our camera recordings before to absolve us of wrong doing.

The problems with reprograming modules seems quite probable judging by your usage pattern. I too hope that reprogrmaing the module will solve your problem.

 

[Another Johnson]

I brought our 2021 G63 to our trusted independent shop (they had been servicing our Porsche Cayenne since 2010) for oil change & B3 service last Thursday.

I think this will be the elephant in the room. People who want the dealer to step up and provide warranty service beyond the warranty are better off if they develop a good relationship with the dealership’s service department. Once you’ve got an independent service provider in the middle, the whole thing can degenerate into a liars contest. There’s a lesson here … the costs are the tuition.

 

[Joel27]

I think this will be the elephant in the room. People who want the dealer to step up and provide warranty service beyond the warranty are better off if they develop a good relationship with the dealership’s service department. Once you’ve got an independent service provider in the middle, the whole thing can degenerate into a liars contest. There’s a lesson here … the costs are the tuition.

I don't think the elephant in the room is he didn't take it to the dealership for all maintenance. He went to a trusted mechanic and had service done just like he has with his other vehicle. If he trusts his current mechanic and there will be no issues moving forwards. And I don't think he was expecting the dealership to go above and beyond his warranty service, I think he was just a little surprised and chagrined that two days after the warranty runs out they hang him out to dry.

 

[Dimfer]

The dealership is on the other side of our city, the indy shop is in between our house and my office, I am taking our vehicles to them because it’s very convenient for me - drop the vehicle off in the morning, pick it up in the afternoon on the way home is the usual arrangement. they are competent (owned by 4 brothers who are all licensed mechanics) and regularly service Porsches, Audis, BMWs and MBs and they had treated us well. I was upfront with the sales people at MB when I bought the vehicle from them, and asked them if they will have an issue if I bring the vehicle to an indy shop for service like oil change.. I was told no problem at all, as long as the service is done by a legit shop with licensed mechanics.

this is not the service department issue, this is MB (the car manufacturer issue). I appreciate that the shop foreman checked the vehicle himself and did not charge me for it. The service advisor and the sales manager were trying to help me, but MB will not let authorize the repair under warranty because it is 2 days over.. The service advisor said MB will not cover repair if the vehicle is even only 1 km over the warranty coverage, that’s how strict they are.

this is what separated MB from Porsche in my books. Porsche replaced 2 parts for me free of charge when I tried to buy it from them.

Non car related - we have one machinery that I bought for around $200k in our shop.. it was made in the UK but I bought it from their US dealer. I had to contact the manufacturer 5 years after warranty expired because the part is only available from them. They shipped the part to us overnite, when I tried to pay for it, the warranty person said no charge because this part is not supposed to break, and even apologized for the inconvenience it caused us.. that’s product support.

we are in HVAC business, one of our dealers in Vancouver complained that they got a complaint from their biggest customer about some defect on the last shipment they received. We sell this product to them for around 60cts a foot, we took back the entire 53’ trailer load of over 90,000’ of pipes without hesitation. Because I believe in our product quality and I don’t want an unhappy dealer/customer.

Maybe MB is suffering from too much warranty problems.

 

[djsina2]

$300k car and going through all this for a $2k repair bill? Sound like a nightmare customer.

 

[Another Johnson]

I am definitely sympathetic. I had a similar experience with Honda many years ago. Technically, they owe you nothing if the warranty has expired, and in the US, they can’t balk based on having used an independent shop to do routine maintenance. They have to honor their warranty as long as it’s in force.

A good dealer might back the vehicle beyond warranty, especially in a circumstance like this … at least providing support at dealer cost. But they don’t have to. It is more likely if the dealer has been the only one providing service.

I wish you the best as you sort it out. Maybe the independent shop will be convinced to step up. Vehicles are extremely complex these days.

A $2k repair is in the noise level on a $300k vehicle, but it would be nice to get a little empathy from the folks in whose charge the failure occurred.

 

[Dimfer]

$300k car and going through all this for a $2k repair bill? Sound like a nightmare customer.

I live a boring life, have to find something to make it exciting.

nightmare customer? Indy shop and the dealership seem to genuinely value my business. Sales manager is also an audiophile and we enjoy long chats whenever I go to the dealership.

We bought the vehicle cash, will I miss it if another $2k go missing from our bank account?

for sure, as my wife puts it - that’s a lot of Tim Hortons ice capp as the decision maker in our company, I’ve walked away from major deals as a seller and a buyer for amounts smaller than $2k.. sometimes life is not just about the dollar amount.

 

[Lagonda]

I think this will be the elephant in the room. People who want the dealer to step up and provide warranty service beyond the warranty are better off if they develop a good relationship with the dealership’s service department. Once you’ve got an independent service provider in the middle, the whole thing can degenerate into a liars contest. There’s a lesson here … the costs are the tuition.

Having the service done by MB 2 days earlier, before the warranty expired would have been perfect. There is a lesson for all of us here.