Avantgarde Horn Speakers

morricab

Well-Known Member
Apr 25, 2014
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Switzerland
Hi Marslo -
Did you try the Crossfire Monoblocks as well? Curious if they would be worth the extra cost over the Stereo Crossfire III.

Also - when you tried the AudioPax at Geoffreys - what model were they - Maggiore 50s or the 88 MK3 monoblocks?
I Had Vulcan Evio monos for review and in some ways still preferred the Crossfire. There was a bit more of everything with Vulcans except transparency and there I thought Crossfire was better actually.
 
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moby2004

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Jan 21, 2018
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AG’s may be placed close to the the wall according to the producer , even in the corner because they are directional.
My Duos have the exit of the horn around 1,5 m from the wall behind, I think it’ s better for the airy presentation and the the sound stage to move them a bit forward.
Thanks. In my scenario if I want to have a decent listening distance ( around 2.8M) I would need to put them at 20cm of the front wall.Improving one aspect but deteriorating another one...
 

Blue58

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Jan 20, 2013
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London, UK
Thanks. In my scenario if I want to have a decent listening distance ( around 2.8M) I would need to put them at 20cm of the front wall.Improving one aspect but deteriorating another one...
I have mine approx35cm from the front wall, BUT, you really need 4m from the speaker for driver integration.
 

marslo

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May 2, 2014
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As a former Crossfire III owner I can concur that it is a really good amp once I ditched all the stock input driver and rectifier tubes. Before that it was a bit, dare I say, solid statish. As for price range, do you mean new or used? You can sometimes find one used for about 5k euro, which is a screaming good deal. I think they are around 13k new though and this gets into AC Genus territory (15k) and then the competition is pretty tough.

I was impressed with the power in the bass of Crossfire III on my Odeons and superb transparency. Tone shaped up with tube rolling. Had I not become involved with AC I could imagine staying with the Ayon.
I am very keen to give Odeon a listen but there are two limitations : Aries Cerat has no distribution in Poland - this is the first and the main problem and secondly without changing my no-hifi rack I can't put Odeon on it - it's too heavy. Sonically could be a real challenger for Crossfire.
 
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morricab

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Apr 25, 2014
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I am very keen to give Odeon a listen but there are two limitations : Aries Cerat has no distribution in Poland - this is the first and the main problem and secondly without changing my no-hifi rack I can't put Odeon on it - it's too heavy. Sonically could be a real challenger for Crossfire.
Hi Marslo
I think you mean Genus. Odeon is my brand of speaker. Yes, if you like what Crossfire does (and it’s clear you do) Genus goes next level, IME. PM me if you want to discuss further.
 

marslo

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May 2, 2014
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Hi Marslo
I think you mean Genus. Odeon is my brand of speaker. Yes, if you like what Crossfire does (and it’s clear you do) Genus goes next level, IME. PM me if you want to discuss further.
Yes, I meant Genus, my mistake.
Will keep in mind your kind proposal, next week I leave to France for a month, will PM you after I am back .
 

marslo

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May 2, 2014
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Well, 10 days with a family is hardly "holiday";)
Then reception of works by the French contractor which is always a hazard game :)
But yes , champagne is cheaper and if you drink a lot you have the stay for free LOL
 
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Ovenmitt

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Nov 21, 2017
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I have Duo 3.2’s in my system. As I understand it, the “3” designation was from upgraded (Cardas) internal wiring and binding posts, black diamond footers and a few other tweaks.

I had powered them with an Art Audio PX25 amp with a bunch of NOS tubes for a long time and loved the sound. It was super quiet, good bottom end, and lovely, accurate tonality.

I moved to a larger home and built a new listening room that is much larger and higher in resolution about five years ago. I found I wasn’t enjoying my stereo as much but couldn’t really put my finger on why.... my Aesthetix Callisto needed service and while it was gone I thought I’d listen to some new/different gear. I had listed to Nagra, in my system, in the past but it didn’t really float my boat. This time around my experience was completely different.

I started by borrowing the classic preamp from my local dealer. I was astounded at how much better it sounded. I then added it’s outboard PS; another leap forward. I then made the mistake of borrowing the HD amp and VPA 845 amps. There seems to be a synergy that’s hard to explain, other than to say, it’s giving me all the resolution beauty and impact I could ask for.

One other thing that’s really brought the performance to a higher place is the addition of stereo REL Studio 3 subwoofers.

I have friends with giant Wilson’s and Rockports. While those systems certainly do things mine doesn’t, I do find that I enjoy listening to music in my room much more than theirs.
 
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marslo

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May 2, 2014
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And?;)
 
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spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
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and...
Famous last word of the audiophile.
Like some great unfinished symphony.
 

Ovenmitt

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Nov 21, 2017
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A picture with Nagra VPS and Art Audio PX25
 

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marslo

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May 2, 2014
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What a beuatiful place and a system, congratulations Ovenmitt.
I think I saw already this picture somewhere in the net, is that possible?
 

Ovenmitt

Well-Known Member
Nov 21, 2017
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Thank you Marslo, I may have posted this picture somewhere else on WBF, I’m not sure. It’s a few months old and I really need to take some proper pics and update my system page over on audiogon - seems to be how people are “showing their rooms/systems” these days.

I do wish Avantgarde speakers were more common. I’d really like to hear some of their newer models properly setup. I’ve been dreaming about Trio’s for a long time!
 
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wil

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Jul 22, 2015
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What a beuatiful place and a system, congratulations Ovenmitt.
I think I saw already this picture somewhere in the net, is that possible?
That’s the nicest listening room picture I’ve seen. The windows and natural light make it.I for one cannot listen to music in a basement bunker!
 
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Tango

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Mar 12, 2017
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Thank you Marslo, I may have posted this picture somewhere else on WBF, I’m not sure. It’s a few months old and I really need to take some proper pics and update my system page over on audiogon - seems to be how people are “showing their rooms/systems” these days.

I do wish Avantgarde speakers were more common. I’d really like to hear some of their newer models properly setup. I’ve been dreaming about Trio’s for a long time!
The Trio's stainless steel subs would go really well with your air duct Chris. :D
Beautiful room.

Ciao,
Tang
 
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May 12, 2018
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Perth, WA
Hi All,

Interesting reading about AG and noisy amps.
My father has AG Duos with tube amps so I know what you mean.
I use my Chord DAVE DAC (2W) to direct drive my Voxativ 9.87 (105dB) via the RCA output terminated with spades on the speaker end with good results. This is only possible because of the very low output impedance on the RCA output. There's also the XLR output which I use to drive my bass units.
I am a digital only guy though so it may not work for folks with analog sources.
Not having to run a pre or power-amp is cost effective and the transparency is through the roof but some may miss the euphonic "tube" sound.

Geoff
 

Blue58

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2013
559
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130
London, UK
I’m currently mid way through updating my AG Duo Omega which is taking me longer than I thought and has exceeded my modest budget I’d allocated to the project due to discovering further areas for tweaking.

The binding posts have been changed from very basic WBT brass/Chrome to Audio Note Ongaku Silver and for the tweeter I had to use WBT 0705Ag. The tweeter crossover connected to the old binding posts via a brass bolt and star washer biting into a trace on the pcb, not the ideal connection. The new WBT allow the solder tag to be bent over and solder directly to the trace. At this moment in time I can not afford to change the cap to a Deulund SnCu and inductor to Jantzen Copper Foil in wax but will prioritise this next year.

Internal wires to drivers will be soldered directly to the driver wires and crossover and ‘grub screwed’ to the Mids posts. These links were kindly made for me by Mark Coles from Sablon Audio and replace the factory silver plated copper links.

The metal horn tubes are now damped carefully with sound deadening panels as in new production Duos.

Moving on to the Bass amps is where my initial upgrade thoughts started and I knew I had to remove the generic IEC inlet for an Oyaide R inlet. I’ve found this inlet to be both great sounding and economical. On opening the amp module I could see two fuses on the pcb screaming SR Blue fuse please!. There are also 4 opamps that could be changed to Burson opamps but I decided to leave these alone. All the caps looked fine, though I was tempted to change the 4 10,000uF caps for Mundorf MLytic AG, so left them alone.

Outside of the Duos I’ve upgraded my Sablon speaker cables to Bocchino spades like Spiritofmusic has done and upgraded the power cords to Prince Sablon Bocchino terminated cords.

I should be finished and back up and running in a couple of days and will post some comments but with so many changes and so much burn in going on it will be hard to allocate any changes. And, if it all sounds horrible I’ll tell you straight.

Here’s a few pics 61ADBDBD-D67A-4C00-9007-55BC5393C53D.jpeg 0EADA9EA-23E6-489D-8936-0E4A78267915.jpeg E8CEB2FD-D545-4A1C-98EF-2A5F381CD35A.jpeg ED6DD5D8-6522-4E59-A8B4-4184A5EFA351.jpeg
 

Folsom

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Oct 26, 2015
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What year are those?

I feel like I should offer modifications for them. I can see several things to do... in fact if someone is interested we can talk. I already offer mods for OB GR amps, but these look ripe for a few changes.
 

Blue58

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2013
559
231
130
London, UK
Hi Folsom, I think these are from 2001 and as far as I can tell one of the later Duo models before the Omega came out. I changed to Omega drivers and crossover about 10 yrs ago and felt it was time to do something to improve them, hopefully.
I’m sure there’s lots on the amp module to change but beyond my knowledge at the moment, but it would be fun and educational to strip the whole amp down. One little tweak I may attemp is to wire the subs binding post directly to the pins of the molex connector as I don’t use the line inputs.
The crossover is easy to rebuild as it’s simply a cap and an inductor across the tweeter.
 

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