Audio Research vs. Conrad Johnson
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Your question is very broad. Both brands have made many products in various categories over a long period of time. Can you put your question in context? Why are you asking?
I have had amps and preamps from both, I liked the linearity and finesse of the ARC, and liked the musicality and grip of the CJs.
I've used 3 ARC amps, D-115MKII, D-125, and presently a VS-110. The only CJ amp I used was an MV-125.
I can't really say if there was a common sonic signature to the 3 ARC amps. The D-115MKII I found a bit cold on the mids, but with clear highs and tight bass. The 125 was the reverse, lush mids, rolled off highs and flabby bass. The VS110 sounds more 'in between' and seems to be a 'perfection' of both. LOL. That's why it's still with me. As for the CJ 125, the mids, specially female vocal was so sweet it was addicting. The highs were ok, and the bass was awesome. My friends call it the 'sledge-hammer' bass. I played a lot of Telarc material with this amp.
I can't really say if there was a common sonic signature to the 3 ARC amps. The D-115MKII I found a bit cold on the mids, but with clear highs and tight bass. The 125 was the reverse, lush mids, rolled off highs and flabby bass. The VS110 sounds more 'in between' and seems to be a 'perfection' of both. LOL. That's why it's still with me. As for the CJ 125, the mids, specially female vocal was so sweet it was addicting. The highs were ok, and the bass was awesome. My friends call it the 'sledge-hammer' bass. I played a lot of Telarc material with this amp.
Jadis, I am currently using an ARC D70 Mk2 as my alternate tube amp ( Some think of it as the baby brother to the D115Mk2). I am amazed that you thought the D115Mk2 a bit cold in the mids
My D70Mk2 is IMHO still SOTA in the mids... My a'phile friends and I have compared this amp to several tube amps including BAT's ,CJ's ,Cary's and even Tenor's. The ARC compares more than favorably with all these amps in the mids
I heard the D125 a few years ago in a friends system and my recollection was that it was not really in the same league in the mids as the D70's. The D70/D115's's were superior to the D125 across the board, IMHO
I wonder, if the aspect of synergy has reared it's head with regards to your experiences with these amps.. What were your ancillary pieces when you heard the ARC amps?
My D70Mk2 is IMHO still SOTA in the mids... My a'phile friends and I have compared this amp to several tube amps including BAT's ,CJ's ,Cary's and even Tenor's. The ARC compares more than favorably with all these amps in the mids
I heard the D125 a few years ago in a friends system and my recollection was that it was not really in the same league in the mids as the D70's. The D70/D115's's were superior to the D125 across the board, IMHO
I wonder, if the aspect of synergy has reared it's head with regards to your experiences with these amps.. What were your ancillary pieces when you heard the ARC amps?
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Jadis, I am currently using an ARC D70 Mk2 as my alternate tube amp ( Some think of it as the baby brother to the D115Mk2). I am amazed that you thought the D115Mk2 a bit cold in the mids
My D70Mk2 is IMHO still SOTA in the mids... My a'phile friends and I have compared this amp to several tube amps including BAT's ,CJ's ,Cary's and even Tenor's. The ARC compares more than favorably with all these amps in the mids
I heard the D125 a few years ago in a friends system and my recollection was that it was not really in the same league in the mids as the D70's. The D70/D115's's were superior to the D125 across the board, IMHO
I wander, if the aspect of synergy, has reared it's head with regards to your experiences with these amps.. What were your ancillary pieces when you heard the ARC amps?
Hi Davey,
Well, yes, it may be 'synergy' involved, but I did get to hear the D70MKII at that same period of time at my neighbor's place, I should say that my feeling is these 2, though technically like 'brothers' did not sound very much alike in the midrange area. The D70MKII sound sweeter than its more powerful brother, the D-115MKII. Both of us were using ARC preamps, mine an SP-14, and his was an SP-9. Both of us used Monster Cable carts, mine an Alpha 2 and his a Genesis. He was using an Infinity Kappa while I had the Thiel CS3.5s. There were observations that the lower wattage sibling of an amp line tend to sound sweeter than the bigger powered ones. For example, our friends here point out that the sweetest mids in the Jadis line was the JA 30. I had the JA 200 at one point and I do agree with that observation. The ARC Classic 30 may sound sweeter too than the Classic 60 or Classic 120 too though I did not have prolonged listening sessions with them though a few friends had told me so.
From my very limited exposure to these two brands listening in stores.
Audio Research: Good stuff, but may lack the full bloom and sound staging of vocals like some purest tube equipment can produce.
Conrad Johnson: Good stuff, but cannot make poorly burned CD's sound any less edgy. Warmer than ARC but don't expect miracles or any degree of excessive coloring of music.
These are general and broad statements intended to be as broad as the original question.
Audio Research: Good stuff, but may lack the full bloom and sound staging of vocals like some purest tube equipment can produce.
Conrad Johnson: Good stuff, but cannot make poorly burned CD's sound any less edgy. Warmer than ARC but don't expect miracles or any degree of excessive coloring of music.
These are general and broad statements intended to be as broad as the original question.
Jadis, I do agree with you that the D70 is more revealing and accurate in the mids than the D115. However, I wouldn't call the D115 a 'Cold' amp; On the occasions that i had a D115MK2 in my system, I liked it enough to consider it, IF I hadn't heard the D70Mk2. Like you say, sometimes the lower powered version of an amp can be, and many times is,the better amp. I would lay the blame for the lack of midrange at the pairing of the SP-14 with your Monster Alpha 2... IMHO, both of these pieces were unable to resolve like the D115 never mind the D70!
Jadis, I do agree with you that the D70 is more revealing and accurate in the mids than the D115. However, I wouldn't call the D115 a 'Cold' amp; On the occasions that i had a D115MK2 in my system, I liked it enough to consider it, IF I hadn't heard the D70Mk2. Like you say, sometimes the lower powered version of an amp can be, and many times is,the better amp. I would lay the blame for the lack of midrange at the pairing of the SP-14 with your Monster Alpha 2... IMHO, both of these pieces were unable to resolve like the D115 never mind the D70!
Fair enough, Davey. Maybe 'cold' is too much of a word for it. But I enjoyed the D115MKII immensely in my area, the bass sock. Can it rock. Yeah! When I first bought it, I recall after playing Sheffield Lab's James Newton Howard and Friends, I told myself the tight punchy bass beat the heck out of my Sumo Polaris amp which was a mosfet design. And as a bass amp driving the Celestion 6000 subwoofers of my friend, the organ on Cantate Domino was crawling, figuratively, of course. LOL
Has anyone matched ARC & CJ together? Like an ARC amp and a CJ preamp or CJ amp and an ARC preamp?
A good friend of mine had an CJ ART II preamp and he bought an ARC 610. Previously his amp was a Jadis JA200 which he used with the ART for many years. Upon changing his amps to the 610, he complained from the start that something seems to be wrong with the sound. He can't explain it fully but that there seems to be a mismatch and the music simply will not bloom and open up. I recall he told me he checked the impedance rating (I forgot if it's input or output) specs of both units - the ARC amp and th CJ preamp, and was told by a technician that they do not match well. My friend ended up selling the ART and getting an ARC Ref 5 which he later on traded up to the Ref Anniversary.
A good friend of mine had an CJ ART II preamp and he bought an ARC 610. Previously his amp was a Jadis JA200 which he used with the ART for many years. Upon changing his amps to the 610, he complained from the start that something seems to be wrong with the sound. He can't explain it fully but that there seems to be a mismatch and the music simply will not bloom and open up. I recall he told me he checked the impedance rating (I forgot if it's input or output) specs of both units - the ARC amp and th CJ preamp, and was told by a technician that they do not match well. My friend ended up selling the ART and getting an ARC Ref 5 which he later on traded up to the Ref Anniversary.
Yes we tried it before ,early 2005. Not as high end w/ what you guys had. We matched a CJ PV11 preamp and ARC D70MK2 driving a Vienna acoustic(Bach). It sounded descent ,no bad habits ,nothing to shout about but after 6 months of owning the D70mk2 he traded it in for one of Conrad Johnson's best amp the Premier 1 and the PV11 was sold to get a CAT SL1 the very 1st edition. It seems ARC has a different house sound than Connie J even when both of them were starting in the early 70's .Personally I prefer ARC's voicing, more neutral and dynamic. The 1st tube amp I tried in my system was the HK Citation 2 this was sort of a revelation for me compared to my Phase Linear 700c series 2 w/c sounded thin and anemic. Went to my dealer friend and he had me audition the ARC SP6 w/ CJ Premier 4 w/c did not gave me the same sensation I had w/ the Citation 2. Then he let me audition the ARC D79B compared to the Citation 2 that he had and I decided to get the D79B ( I really like how it looks like compared to the other ARC models of its time) and became a fan of the marque.
Hi tdh888,
That's good to know. I agree with you that ARC and CJ have different house sounds and actually, I wouldn't mind owning either one of them. It's just the CJ's dealer here is not as active or aggressive in bringing in new models through the years than our local ARC dealer. I had good results too when I matched a CJ MV125 with a Jadis JPL preamp - the vocals, specially female, is the most luscious I've heard till today.
I'd find the impedance explanation a little hard to believe in this case. The output impedance of the ART if I remember correctly is around 500 ohms (one big difference with the GAT is that the output impedance is around 100 ohms and should make it less IC sensitive) and most tube amps are around 100 Kohms (not sure about the ARC). The main problem would be if the amp's input impedance was around 10 kohms as with many ss amps and then one might hear rolled off bass and lack of dynamics.
I owned an MV125 with a cj premier 9 preamplifier driving Wilson Watt/puppies V. Flabby bass? Yes. But voices had real soul - my madrigal recordings sounded better than ever. I dreamed about the premier 8's but never got them. IMHO the ARCs classic 120's sounded sterile compared with the cj, but had much better bass and treble.
Only later the more expensive VT150's re-established balance in favor of ARC.
I am astonished that someone could do such a matching! Most ARC amplifiers are fully balanced from the input to the output transformer and do not have the phase inverters for push pull when operated in unbalanced mode. They can not be used in unbalanced mode using adapters - the only proper way to use them with a cj would be using a balancing input transformer. If you look at ARC ref610 manuals you will find only balanced specifications. Used with the ART the REF 610 should have sounded anemic and with some distortion - the push or the pull side would not be working!
But the ARC preamps though totally balanced designs have both balanced and SE inputs and outputs. I know that ARC normally suggests that they sound better using balanced connections. Almost all of my inputs into my modified LS10 are either balanced inputs though balanced cables or cables that come from SE components to balanced connectors into the LS10. Unfortunately, though I wanted a First Watt SS amp with balanced inputs it was suggested that I purchase the First Watt M2 power amp which only has SE inputs because it was thought to be a better match for my OMA New Yorker horn prototypes. I have extremely fine performance with the M2, but I suspect that a balanced connection might be better.
Rich
Rich
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