Audio Research releases Its 40th Anniversary Preamp

[CKKeung]

Hi CKK, i just asked a reviewer who has reviewed both the ARC Ref 40, ARC Ref 5 and the CJ GAT. He said in his opinion the CJ GAT is on equal footing with the Ref 40 in performance, though they provide listerners different virtues. He also said both ARC Ref 40 and the CJ GAT were superior to the Ref 5.

Since i do not speak/write Chinese, i cannot register for Review33...so if SimCity wishes to share his thoughts on FM268 vs CJ GAT, he can perhaps post here?

no doubt, system synergy, etc are all extremely important, but it is helpful for me to get an idea (since i will probably not have the opportunity to hear ARC Ref 40 or FM268 in direct comparison to CJ GAT) to get opinions from experienced people (particularly when they have spent a lot of time with these components).

Hi lloydelee21,

I had already emailed Simcity about your questions but not sure whether he wants to join the WBF & answers your questions here.

This is his thread in www.Review33.com. You may notice that many of the discussions are in English.
http://www.review33.com/avforum/index.php?topic=26080713012540&page=1

I suggest you to go ahead with registration & directly post your questions in Simcity's thread. This is the Review33 registration page. Use Google Translate & the registration will not be difficult.
http://www.review33.com/member/index_new.php

BTW, it's not surprising that the similarly-priced CJ GAT & ARC40 perform at the same level but with different characters. IMHO the manufacturers are very clever in price-setting so usually we get what we pay for.

 

[LL21]

Thanks!

 

[FrantzM]

Frantz:

You want something that doesn't require burn in? Buy a Technics receiver. It will always sound bad.

Otherwise, no one else here seems to lose any sleep over the issue. Tubes take a 100 hours to burn-in. No big deal. It isn't like the equipment sounds like crap; usually the gear sounds pretty good and only gets better.

And some cable co's do burn-in their cables nowadays.

Myles

Sarcasm doesn't advance the discussion. Real solid arguments definitely will. If that wasn't clear enough the implied request and question are that for the price asked for this preamp, 500 hours of burn-in is way too long. If there are specifics parts that do require such long burn-in... It seems appropriate for the manufacturer to do so in advance. This process would not substantially increase the price of admission, at that level of price, a thousand dollar would not seem to have those interested running away or, as you put it , "lose any sleep about it"..
From a reviewer, I would have expected a more critical stance not boosterism.

 

[MylesBAstor]

Myles

Sarcasm doesn't advance the discussion. Real solid arguments definitely will. If that wasn't clear enough the implied request and question are that for the price asked for this preamp, 500 hours of burn-in is way too long. If there are specifics parts that do require such long burn-in... It seems appropriate for the manufacturer to do so in advance. This process would not substantially increase the price of admission, at that level of price, a thousand dollar would not seem to have those interested running away or, as you put it , "lose any sleep about it"..
From a reviewer, I would have expected a more critical stance not boosterism.

Sorry but think you're making a lot out of nothing. Now if you were talking about the looks of products --that would help market penetration, that's another thing. Or remote control. Or nowadays, being able to control everything with an ipad. Now that's the stuff people are concerned with

 

[Orb]

Anyone thought to ask Audio Research how much soak/burn-in process for this product line would cost if they had implemented it or even if was viable
Would make more sense than debating it IMO.

Cheers
Orb

 

[microstrip]

(...) If that wasn't clear enough the implied request and question are that for the price asked for this preamp, 500 hours of burn-in is way too long. If there are specifics parts that do require such long burn-in... It seems appropriate for the manufacturer to do so in advance. This process would not substantially increase the price of admission, at that level of price, a thousand dollar would not seem to have those interested running away or, as you put it , "lose any sleep about it"... (...)

Market rules for small series of expensive SOTA units are completely different from the market rules of other type of consumer electronics. You can be sure that the people who took over ARC (Fine Sounds SpA, the same group who owns Sonus Faber, Wadia and Sumilo), can answer your question about the cost of burn-in - after all they have plenty of people with MBAs in economics. But I doubt that they will want to answer, even if they already know it. And any guess we can make, such as your 1000, is of very small validity - why not 250, 500, 2000 or 3000? If they would burn-in the Anniversary, should they do the same to the REF5 and all their REF line? And the cheaper lines?

Also, sometimes people seem to forget high-end is a market dominated by preferences, and market strategies should consider it. High-end consumers are prepared to accept burn-in. Why change the rules just because people who systematically question it and are not interested in buying from this niche, do not like the idea that other people have to do burn-in of their equipment?

 

[LL21]

Hi lloydelee21,

I had already emailed Simcity about your questions but not sure whether he wants to join the WBF & answers your questions here.

This is his thread in www.Review33.com. You may notice that many of the discussions are in English.
http://www.review33.com/avforum/index.php?topic=26080713012540&page=1

I suggest you to go ahead with registration & directly post your questions in Simcity's thread. This is the Review33 registration page. Use Google Translate & the registration will not be difficult.
http://www.review33.com/member/index_new.php

BTW, it's not surprising that the similarly-priced CJ GAT & ARC40 perform at the same level but with different characters. IMHO the manufacturers are very clever in price-setting so usually we get what we pay for.

Hi CKK, i have PM'd Simcity on Review33 to ask his comments...so far perhaps he is too busy with his giant website to have time to answer. If you happen to speak with him, any thoughts he has regarding CJ GAT vs other SOTA preamps (FM 268, ...) would be most appreciated!!! Thanks!!!

 

[CKKeung]

Tweaking my ARC40

Dear All,

All Hong Kong audiophiles have itchy hands. Although my ARC40 is now just 400 hours, I am doing/planning tweaks for it.

I install a HiFi-Tuning Supreme fuse (the black color one) and there is audible improvement in almost every aspects. A very value-for-money tweak!

A friend of mine showed me his NOS 6H30-DR tubes bought from Part Connexion. I notice that the look is quite different from those that I find in eBay & in various webshops : there is no marking of the manufacture date & OTK logo. Are these tube real NOS 1980s 6H30-DR?

On the other hand, most of the sellers in eBay are in Turkey, East Europe or Russia. Are they reliable?

Thanks for your help in advance!

 

[MylesBAstor]

Dear All,


I install a HiFi-Tuning Supreme fuse (the black color one) and there is audible improvement in almost every aspects. A very value-for-money tweak!

Yes And listen for directionality.

A friend of mine showed me his NOS 6H30-DR tubes bought from Part Connexion. I notice that the look is quite different from those that I find in eBay & in various webshops : there is no marking of the manufacture date & OTK logo. Are these tube real NOS 1980s 6H30-DR?

On the other hand, most of the sellers in eBay are in Turkey, East Europe or Russia. Are they reliable?

Thanks for your help in advance!

I raised the same point in a post a couple of months ago. See: http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?2155-6H30-s-Are-the-more-expensive-megabuck-versions-worth-the-money

I'm actually quite happy with the 6H30s that cj is supplying for the ART amplifier. I just can't warm up to the NOS tubes; perhaps in a dark system, they would work well, but not in a more balanced system.

 

[CKKeung]

Hi CKK, i have PM'd Simcity on Review33 to ask his comments...so far perhaps he is too busy with his giant website to have time to answer. If you happen to speak with him, any thoughts he has regarding CJ GAT vs other SOTA preamps (FM 268, ...) would be most appreciated!!! Thanks!!!

Hi lloydelee,

Yes, Simcity had auditioned GAT vs FM 268 before. Here are the photos taken when he was doing a home visit:
http://www.hiendy.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=11651&extra=page=1&page=8

 

[microstrip]

I have not listened to FM Acoustics for the last fifteen years, and the absence of a remote and price chills my interest, but not my curiosity.
Is the Harmonic Linearizer of the FM 268 an equalizer similar to the Cello Audio Palette?

 

[jadis]

If I learn that ARC had burned in my amp at the factory for 600 hours with music, then I would feel that my amp is now used and not brand new. Brand new and sealed units are greatly appreciated by my friends over here who buys things new and expect nothing less than that. Breaking in at the factory to me is similar to watching your paid unit left at your audio dealer for 4 months while you let him play and burn in your unit to walk in customers. Now it feels like a demo unit as well.

 

[CKKeung]

Factory Burn-in

If I learn that ARC had burned in my amp at the factory for 600 hours with music, then I would feel that my amp is now used and not brand new. Brand new and sealed units are greatly appreciated by my friends over here who buys things new and expect nothing less than that. Breaking in at the factory to me is similar to watching your paid unit left at your audio dealer for 4 months while you let him play and burn in your unit to walk in customers. Now it feels like a demo unit as well.

Hi Phil,

Agree with you completely!
This is the reason why I want ARC to burn in those huge telfon capacitors but not a fully assembled ARC40.

CKK

 

[mep]

If I learn that ARC had burned in my amp at the factory for 600 hours with music, then I would feel that my amp is now used and not brand new. Brand new and sealed units are greatly appreciated by my friends over here who buys things new and expect nothing less than that. Breaking in at the factory to me is similar to watching your paid unit left at your audio dealer for 4 months while you let him play and burn in your unit to walk in customers. Now it feels like a demo unit as well.

I don’t see the similarity at all. I damn sure wouldn’t want my dealer burning in my unit and having customers touching it. However, having ARC burn the unit in while they sat in banks on shelves at the factory is another matter. ARC could burn the units in, replace all off the tubes with a fresh set, and package and seal the preamp. You would be the first to open the sealed box. This would be night and day different than having your dealer burn the unit in by using it as a store demo. Now you wouldn’t be the first to open the box and your tubes would be used.

Of course this is all silly talk anyway because ARC is not going to do this. You get to age your preamp tubes and burn up 25% of the life of your output tubes while you wait for the ARC to break in.

 

[FrantzM]

If I learn that ARC had burned in my amp at the factory for 600 hours with music, then I would feel that my amp is now used and not brand new. Brand new and sealed units are greatly appreciated by my friends over here who buys things new and expect nothing less than that. Breaking in at the factory to me is similar to watching your paid unit left at your audio dealer for 4 months while you let him play and burn in your unit to walk in customers. Now it feels like a demo unit as well.

Phil

Really? So in yor opinion a used product is inferior to a new one almost by (your) definition? Well , to each its own. I find this view extreme though... especially if the burn-in is part of the manufacturing process ...
Guess they are right in suggesting this 600 hour burn-in .. This thread ,if they monitor it, would be sufficient proof ..

 

[microstrip]

I can not imagine how some people feel when they buy a bottle of wine that should not be drunk before ten years. Specially knowing that probably the wine in the bottom of the bottle will be discarded ...

 

[jadis]

Phil

Really? So in yor opinion a used product is inferior to a new one almost by (your) definition? Well , to each its own. I find this view extreme though... especially if the burn-in is part of the manufacturing process ...
Guess they are right in suggesting this 600 hour burn-in .. This thread ,if they monitor it, would be sufficient proof ..

Frantz,

Not to say that a used product is inferior but to equate a brand new price in relation to a used product. It's a personal view which I share with a very good friend here, we always say we'd still prefer to open a sealed unit since we paid brand new price for it and take the burn in process, however tedious it may be, to run its own course. And another thing is if the factory had burned in my ARC amp for 600 hours, then my power tube life would have been reduced by 1/3 of the projected 2000 hours of life without me listening to it myself. Like my ARC VS115 amp that I bought last April, at this point I'm not even at 600 hours but may be just over 300 hours but I must say I have started to really enjoy it after the first 150 hours or so.

 

[LL21]

Hi lloydelee,

Yes, Simcity had auditioned GAT vs FM 268 before. Here are the photos taken when he was doing a home visit:
http://www.hiendy.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=11651&extra=page=1&page=8

Hi CKK. Thanks for the link! i saw the pictures...did Simcity actually comment on the comparison betweeen GAT and FM268? Also, what was the conclusion about the ARC Ref 40 vs the FM 268? thanks!

 

[LL21]

Hi CKK,

just read the latest update on hiendy.com Seems like Simcity feels FM Acoustics 268 is the 'holy grail' amongt transistor preamps, while CJ GAT and ARC Ref 40 are the 'holy grail' among tube preamps.

 

[LL21]

So I finally heard the GAT. Frankly, it blew me away. The guys in the room said it was by far the best CJ they'd heard, and it certainly is the best CJ i've heard (i've owned two...PV14L and ACT 2). Here's my notes:

- transparent to invisible...i've not ever felt that a pre was invisible until this one...
- i think it has to do with extreme alacrity...its so fast, it does not feel like the component is taking in a signal, processing it, and then having to 'push' it back out thru a series of cones/speakers. music just seemed to fly/breathe effortlessly (with no resistance) thru the component if that makes any sense.
- it is also very even across the spectrum...super balanced
- it is also very, very quiet...which means you really do start to hear your music as if for the first time with all the new detail
- the extension of the unit is far greater than the ACT 2. it ain't close, and i like the ACT 2
- dynamically, you understand quite quickly the ACT 2 is very limited (which i already knew)
- finally, CJ left their DNA in the unit...it always manages to feel completely at ease and completely natural (which the ACT 2 does not in comparison)