Audio Magic Nano-Liquid Fuses---mikey likey :)

[Orb]

one last question that puzzles me is that in the time taken to change fuses and then to do some critical listening how can anyone even remember what the difference in sound even is to comment with any degree of certainty?

You are right you cannot and why sometimes a sideways move (say amp or speaker for simplicity) is initially seen as an improvement rather than a more specific pros/cons situation most provide, but certain parameters regarding self perception helps to determine ones level of satisfaction, issues, fatigue, enjoyment, less attentive to the music,etc.
Not the same but can be helpful, although relying upon longer listening windows IMO, and so can work in this case with fuses as well, while some auditory memory will still exist (just need to be very careful ensuring one does not fall into the trap of imagining differences - relates to listeners will usually still choose A or B even if they are unsure and consciously cannot tell the difference as very simple example).

However I feel it is critical to remember this is about anecdotal experience Steve rather than the scope of a satisfactory study that then has to be very careful in both scope and scale of implementation and then interpretation of the data.
We done that thread a few times with the various DBT,etc
The thread is not saying "Scientific proof fuses make a difference".
Cheers
Orb

 

[Steve Williams]

I wasn't arguing both at the same time.Others are. Simply put I am reading these two things. Correct me if I am wrong....

1. These mega fuses make a distinctly audible and for the better sound in a system regardless of which component they are placed

2. These mega fuses make a distinctly audible difference with fuse directionality

 

[Mike Lavigne]

one last question that puzzles me is that in the time taken to change fuses and then to do some critical listening how can anyone even remember what the difference in sound even is to comment with any degree of certainty?

obviously this issue exists with everything you audition in your system. and everyone's listening culture is different.

i can only speak to how i do it for me, and how i've always done it. and it's up to others whether impressions that i come up with my approach have any value to them.

i have a few 100 or more (up to over a thousand) go to cuts that i have listened to for years. my reference for these cuts is living; in other words it progresses over time as my system changes. it includes many different digital formats, some discs and some server stuff, many many Lps, and a few tapes. i can keep pulling them out as long as i feel i need to.

it might take a week or 2 or 3 to get thru all of them after a change. i need to be by myself and my head needs to be relaxed and focused. if i'm too tired i won't get into that mode of listening that way.

maybe that does not work for others, but that is the way i do it. it's an enjoyable process for me. it's not work. if it becomes work then i stop.

 

[Orb]

Well another anecdotal experience to try and would be a little stronger in testing and one would interest me sort of fits in with what you raise Steve.
Would be interesting to try the Blue Horizon noise analyzer with each fuse, results should be negligible but quick test... if have the product.
Great article below using the Blue Horizon noise analyzer with thoughts on the PS Audio PPP effects on common mode noise-etc.
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/bluehorizon/1.html

Cheers
Orb

 

[Bruce B]

If I were to test some of these magic beans, where would I find them?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

If I were to test some of these magic beans, where would I find them?

i got the fuses from Darin (club president) at Jaguar Audio Design, same place Andrew got his.

here is the actual site to order.

http://store.jaguaraudiodesign.com/audio-magic-liquid-fuses/

you choose the 'super' ($100) fuse with the drop down menu, not premium ($59). then enter the spec of your fuse....order, and pay with paypal thru the site. these are custom built to order, takes a few days and they get shipped back to Darin. i got mine in about 10 days.

if you are not local like Bruce, Darin would ship them to you directly.

 

[Daveski]

The audibility of a fuse should be relatively easy to A/B listen or measure, in-situ once the electrical connections are exposed. The ideal electrical model for a fuse operating at less than its hold rating is a short-circuit. If you think you can hear the effects of a fuse, short it out temporarily and you'll have a fuse/no fuse comparison.

I can see a fuse having some measurable impact, inline with low impedance speakers and cables, maybe, but on the primary AC line side? not so much.

 

[HedgeHog]

I wasn't arguing both at the same time.Others are. Simply put I am reading these two things. Correct me if I am wrong....

1. These mega fuses make a distinctly audible and for the better sound in a system regardless of which component they are placed

I'm guessing these are similar to replacing "audiophile" power cords. I found it made the most difference in the preamp and source component. Just my CAD$0.02.

2. These mega fuses make a distinctly audible difference with fuse directionality

I thought only HiFi Tuning claims that their fuses are directional. Don't recall the other brands mentioning this. But FWIW, I emailed both my gear manufacturer - Classe Audio and Pathos Acoustics - inquiring about this black magic; thinking they would respond with a "we do not recommend changing the OEM fuse so directionality would not be of issue". But both emails came back with diagrams of "flow direction" across all the fuses (the Pathos uses 6!). In fact, Classe provided instructions to determine directionality based on IEC Pin 1.


-Hedwig

 

[RBFC]

Current carrying ability should be the fuse blow rating. You DO want the fuse to blow.

Don't you think that it would be wise to test "specialty" fuses to be sure they meet their specifications? What if the gauge of the wire is so small that it affects R value and blows early?

Test the things right and let the measurements stand. Then, debate the audibility after standard electrical qualifications have been met.

Lee

 

[treitz3]

I did not mess around with fuse direction, I'm sort of burnt out on critical listening for a spell. I just went through some system changes and am now just enjoying the music for a while. As for all this need for tests, measures and what not...ya'll have lost me there. Here is the deal, I changed the fuses and it sounds better. I don't really care much about why, who how etc nor do I feel any obligation to present a "case". I suppose if your the type of guy that needs data/testing/measures etc it's best you carry on your own trials because even if one did take the time to go through such exercise they would be open to debate, full of flaws and never conclusive enough. For me, I listen to it and I either like it or I don't...beyond that I am totally lost at what folks are after.

Hello, 1rsw and thank you for your honesty. If it weren't for folks like you, Mike L. and others, folks would never hear of real world experience. Here's my take. If folks want measurements and scientific proof beyond a shadow of a doubt that Nano-Liquid fuses make a difference, then by all means, they should go out and purchase them and do the tests the way they deem necessary.

Like yourself and others on this thread, it all boils down to the improvement or perceived improvement/deficiency thereof. Electrical qualifications aside.

Tom

 

[treitz3]

The audibility of a fuse should be relatively easy to A/B listen or measure, in-situ once the electrical connections are exposed. The ideal electrical model for a fuse operating at less than its hold rating is a short-circuit. If you think you can hear the effects of a fuse, short it out temporarily and you'll have a fuse/no fuse comparison.

I can see a fuse having some measurable impact, inline with low impedance speakers and cables, maybe, but on the primary AC line side? not so much.

Hello, Daveski. First off, please let me welcome you to the WBF. Secondly, I'd like to mention that your post was straight to the point and admirable.

Tom

 

[Revel Salon 2]

[QUOTE) HedgeHog Just my CAD$0.02.

the penny is dead..your thought is worth O !! just kidding ;-)

 

[Daveski]

Would one expect esoteric fuses to improve video as well as audio? If I change out the stock fuses in my projector, TV or BD player, would I expect to see improved video? More contrast? Deeper saturation? Less artifacts, etc?

These guys purport 'high performance' fuses for video uses: http://www.revolutionpower.com/c/Fuses/

Of course with digital video and the ability to capture, query and report each and every pixel triad, it should be relatively easy to do A/B comparisons and run diffs to see how and where even a single pixel was rendered any differently with one fuse vs another.

 

[Orb]

Will not be for a few weeks at least but will give it a go myself.
What I will use to make it interesting is a quality stock mains block and the audio gear plugged into this; will change fuse 1st in (to be decided) one or two audio equipment 1st, then change fuse in mains block last.
Provides some differentiation in variables for consideration this way.
Cheers
Orb

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

Somewhere the discussion got lost. The premises were if I understand them well that the nano-something fuses made a difference in Mike's system when he put these in his bass tower Amplifiers' AC line . My contention remains that it was unlikely that they would make the differences Mike expressed.

The discussion has moved toward the contribution of fuses elsewhere in the signal chain. IMO a completely separate issue.

 

[Orb]

Frantz,
the OP even mentions he would like to try it with audio equipment
So the focus is improvements to audio and using such fuses.
It was never a discussion originally, just someone mentioning their anecdotal experience for others - well that was my take so sorry if wrong doh

Anyway I feel it makes sense in my suggestion to try it both in the gear and I feel importantly the power distribution block, because curious if the effect (if any) is both or closest point to the equipment.

Cheers
Orb

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I dont know about that. If this is whats best forum, and we change the title of the forum to whats best according to myself, then fine, what you say, while true as you sayit, would be fine.

And I doubt anybody here denies that our ear/brain interface is what we want to be happy and please us,

however,

IMO there needs to be some review and discussion about whats best and to even reach that conclusion some sort of criteria are needed. Whats best is a challenging thing. Whats the best fuse then, we got about 5 brands out there now....

your perspective on whether the 'balance' of skepticism to respect for listening impressions on WBF is correct is not shared by me, and i suspect not shared by others as well.

i get really tired of all the angst directed at listening impressions to 'prove it' or 'measure it' or 'see your shrink' in one fashion or another. obviously; since i'm still here the community is more valuable to me than that irritation.....but only by a little. clearly one of the forum administrators is in this thread calling me out for measurments and testing. so this situation is not changing....and he's supposedly the 'subjective' one. it's a big part of the dna here.

and if we start down the road of 'some sort of criteria are needed' i'm outahere.

 

[vinylphilemag]

i get really tired of all the angst directed at listening impressions to 'prove it' or 'measure it' or 'see your shrink' in one fashion or another. obviously; since i'm still here the community is more valuable to me than that irritation.....but only by a little. clearly the forum admin is in this thread calling me out for measurments and testing. so this situation is not changing. it's a big part of the dna here.

Mike, I'd just like to say that I enjoy reading your listening impressions of new toys (and I'm sure I'm not alone). No need for "proof" for this reader!

 

[mep]

I dont know about that. If this is whats best forum, and we change the title of the forum to whats best according to myself, then fine, what you say, while true as you sayit, would be fine.

And I doubt anybody here denies that our ear/brain interface is what we want to be happy and please us,

however,

IMO there needs to be some review and discussion about whats best and to even reach that conclusion some sort of criteria are needed. Whats best is a challenging thing. Whats the best fuse then, we got about 5 brands out there now....

Your line of reasoning, analogies, and logic are all based on an incorrect assumption because you are looking for consensus by committee on "What's Best" when in fact that will never happen. We can't agree on much of anything around here. So in reality, it is "what's best according to myself" and not what's best by committee. For some people on this forum, all arguments over "what's best" would be settled at the end of a spec sheet.

 

[Steve Williams]

Mike

if you are referring to me I can assure you that this is not the case. AsI said I am fascinated by the whole fuse discussion. I am not a measurement guy but I have to in all seriousness suggest this when one talks about directionality affecting the sound as this makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever.

Mike, I used to have "ultimate tweak" under my signature for years but I found the hard way that most of the things to which I espoused were probably not responsible for any change(s) in my system. I too like to use my ears in making a decision and have never once engaged in a DBT (as you have and learned the reality of your results). Simply put I don't know the answer. Logic and science for me suggests that these fuses should make absolutely no difference. I look at Frantz post regarding your comments in the bass wherein he suggests that the science of such will not change the bass response according to his back ground.Making sweeping and bold statements will certainly allow for members to challenge the post for which you, myself and any member would certainly do the same if they felt such a sweeping statement defied all science.

Again, I don't know the answer but as I posted here many months ago when similar thread topics on premium fuses arose, I did speak to Vladimir Lamm about switching out fuses on my preamp and amp.....his exact words to me were "forget it, not necessary, no difference".

Long and the short of it Mike is that I remain a skeptic but not so much that I won't try these in my system for my benefit. Bruce said he heard no difference in your friend's system and others make the point that speaker adjustment could certainly be the main reason that changes were heard. I am merely questioning points made in your post and asking myself "how so and how can this be explained.?"