Aries Cerat Protos - class A TriodeFET integrated amplifier in a compact case (can face a 2 Ohm load)

[morricab]

Hi WBF Members,
Maybe a big ask;
Just wondering if anybody has used the Aries Cerat Protos with HifiMan Susvara headphones and also ideally compared the Protos directly with the Genus both using speakers and Susvara headphones ?

Also is the headphone impedance / load output for the designated power output of 20W from the Protos the same as for the Speakers impedance / load output i.e. 8 Ohms ?

I currently use the HifiMan EF1000 Headphone & Speaker Integrated Amp (Hybrid - tube pre with SS power amp giving 20W pure Class A at 35 Ohms load for the headphones and 50W pure Class A at 8 Ohms load and 110W Class A/B at 8 Ohms load) which was specifically designed and built to power the inefficient (60 Ohms impedance) Susvara's (which it does to great effect).

So I am wondering if the Protos is equal to or even better than my EF1000 for my Susvara headphones from a quality of sound etc. prospective ?

Sorry, not a headphone guy and therefore haven’t tried it as a headphone amp.

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

Sorry, not a headphone guy and therefore haven’t tried it as a headphone amp.

Hi 'morricab', Thank you for responding to my post. Much appreciated.

 

[iaxel]

Hi Bonsey,

I had the Susvara and Genus together at some time in my system.
The Genus’ sound signature is extremely favorable with the Susvara. I did find that at very high volume and dynamic passages the Genus had a bit of a problem keeping up with the Susvara. However, Aries Cerat gear works best with Aries Cerat, therefore when I received the Helene for an audition (with its high output gain) the combination was simply sublime and drove anything (including the Susvara) perfectly.
I have not auditioned the Protos, but I’m familiar with the TriodeFET technology from the Aperio (the Protos’ bigger brother) and if you like the Genus, the TriodeFET will give you even more drive and dynamics.

My assumption is that the Protos will work very well with the Susvara. However, I do recommend matching it with an Aries Cerat source.

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

Hi Bonsey,

I had the Susvara and Genus together at some time in my system.
The Genus’ sound signature is extremely favorable with the Susvara. I did find that at very high volume and dynamic passages the Genus had a bit of a problem keeping up with the Susvara. However, Aries Cerat gear works best with Aries Cerat, therefore when I received the Helene for an audition (with its high output gain) the combination was simply sublime and drove anything (including the Susvara) perfectly.
I have not auditioned the Protos, but I’m familiar with the TriodeFET technology from the Aperio (the Protos’ bigger brother) and if you like the Genus, the TriodeFET will give you even more drive and dynamics.

My assumption is that the Protos will work very well with the Susvara. However, I do recommend matching it with an Aries Cerat source.

Thank you 'iaxel' for your very helpful and informative reply. Very much appreciated.

Yes, if I bought the Protos (that would replace my Hifiman EF1000), then I would most probably go down the AC rabbit hole and also buy the Helena (or maybe a second hand Kassandra Ref) and sell my DAVE and also sell my CH P1 & X1 and buy the Hermes or a second hand Talos Ref !

I like the sound of the Triode Fet technology from AC especially when I read that the units don't get too hot with using this technology as opposed to the classic tube technology of the Genus etc. as during hot summer months in the UK my EF1000 gets very hot making the room temperature as high as 32degC ! I can not imagine how hot my room would get having all classic tube gear from AC :-0

 

[Hiyono]

I have a Protos and use with RAAL Immanis . It’s quiet background and sounds amazing. A friend might bring his susvara over later in the month or next month.

I do hear a hum with my other more sensitive headphones like focal Utopia, Diana Mr and some others. Stavros said that the new psu upgrade will lower the noise floor further.

Thank you 'iaxel' for your very helpful and informative reply. Very much appreciated.

Yes, if I bought the Protos (that would replace my Hifiman EF1000), then I would most probably go down the AC rabbit hole and also buy the Helena (or maybe a second hand Kassandra Ref) and sell my DAVE and also sell my CH P1 & X1 and buy the Hermes or a second hand Talos Ref !

I like the sound of the Triode Fet technology from AC especially when I read that the units don't get too hot with using this technology as opposed to the classic tube technology of the Genus etc. as during hot summer months in the UK my EF1000 gets very hot making the room temperature as high as 32degC ! I can not imagine how hot my room would get having all classic tube gear from AC :-0

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

I have a Protos and use with RAAL Immanis . It’s quiet background and sounds amazing. A friend might bring his susvara over later in the month or next month.

I do hear a hum with my other more sensitive headphones like focal Utopia, Diana Mr and some others. Stavros said that the new psu upgrade will lower the noise floor further.

Thank you 'Hiyono' for your informative post. Much appreciated.
Let us know how it goes with your friends Susvara and your Protos.

 

[iaxel]

I do hear a hum with my other more sensitive headphones like focal Utopia, Diana Mr and some others. Stavros said that the new psu upgrade will lower the noise floor further.

On the backside of the Genus there was a L/H switch that reduced the gain for high-sensitivity headphones. I used it with high-sensitivity headphones and the hum was reduced significantly and on some headphones completely gone.
Is there such a switch on the Protos?

 

[morricab]

I assume you guys are only talking about hum through headphones because through my 98dB sensitivity speakers there is no hum whatsoever...no noise at all in fact.

 

[iaxel]

I assume you guys are only talking about hum through headphones because through my 98dB sensitivity speakers there is no hum whatsoever...no noise at all in fact.

Yes, the problem is with high-sensitivity and high-impedance headphones.

 

[Hiyono]

On the backside of the Genus there was a L/H switch that reduced the gain for high-sensitivity headphones. I used it with high-sensitivity headphones and the hum was reduced significantly and on some headphones completely gone.
Is there such a switch on the Protos?

Sadly there is no such switch on the Protos.

What Stavros replied
“
The Protos noise floor is -75db, which means noise is inaudible by most headphones out there, except the most sensitive ones.On the most senstive headphones you might hear 100Hz which is the most dominant noise peak and is the magnetic coupling of the rectifiers to the circuit.

We plan to offer an optional upgraded PSU in near future which will lower the noise floor even more, as well as have some nice upgrades in all aspects such as tube rectification , higher energy banks etc.”

 

[orfeo_monteverdi]

For the sake of clarity,
Would you please gents be explicit when you are talking about
- a headphone use case / speaker use case
- when the whine, or buzz, occurs (at start; transient/continuous)
and begin your post with those informations.

Thanks.

 

[simorag]

I just received a Protos with the upgraded PSU for review on 6moons.com. I plan to use it with speakers and with various headphones, including relatively sensitive ones like the Nur Harmonia, stay tuned!

 

[orfeo_monteverdi]

So the new PSU is now wider and has two tubes sticking out.

Does this new PSU bring something to all, regarding sound quality? YES
Or does it just "fix" an unfortunate (noisy) interaction that only some have (with their cables, and other stuff; don't remember) ? [only at startup] NO

(likely that only AC can answer in a valuable way to those questions)
// UPDATE: They did, see AC's answer hereafter (post #76)

 

[iaxel]

So the new PSU is now wider and has two tubes sticking out.

Does this new PSU bring something to all, regarding sound quality?
Or does it just "fix" an unfortunate (noisy) interaction that only some have (with their cables, and other stuff; don't remember) ?
(likely that only AC can answer in a valuable way to those questions)

If believe it does, I think I read it somewhere.
It is also considerably raises the price of the Protos (by ~25%).
Also, my assumption is that if there’s a required fix to an issue in the “original” Protos, Stavros would have resolved it with its existing psu.

 

[VoicesInMyHead]

So the new PSU is now wider and has two tubes sticking out.

Does this new PSU bring something to all, regarding sound quality?
Or does it just "fix" an unfortunate (noisy) interaction that only some have (with their cables, and other stuff; don't remember) ?
(likely that only AC can answer in a valuable way to those questions)

I'm not aware of any problems with the original PSU, I think this is just offered as an optional upgrade, and that it would typically lower noise floor as one of its improvements. Official information is still scarce though, no mentioning on the website, there's some social media photos only. I'm a big believer in power and suspect this would be a nice upgrade indeed, I would have been all over this if it wasn't for the price which I believe is €6000+VAT. That's just too much for me, if it would have been half of that I would have bought it instantly but now it's likely not going to happen.

 

[Aries Cerat]

So the new PSU is now wider and has two tubes sticking out.

Does this new PSU bring something to all, regarding sound quality?
Or does it just "fix" an unfortunate (noisy) interaction that only some have (with their cables, and other stuff; don't remember) ?
(likely that only AC can answer in a valuable way to those questions)

Hi

Nothing "unfortunate" with previous psu, this new psu fixes no problem. It is simply an upgrade(at a cost) for the PSU.

The new PSU has tube rectified/tripled choke filters for the HV supply, and triple the energy banks for the low voltage sections, as well as additional EMI suppression.It is IMHO a good SQ upgrade.

(the interaction you are referring ,is probably the reaction of the amp only on highly inductive loads during start up/power down. For early units(that is early batch without the shunt ) we provide an external zobel , and the current units have shunt mechanism to avoid this all together.)

Cheers

 

[simorag]

48Ohm/107dB efficiency headphones self noise check passed with flying colors with the upgraded PSU.

​

 

[orfeo_monteverdi]

Hi

Nothing "unfortunate" with previous psu, this new psu fixes no problem. It is simply an upgrade(at a cost) for the PSU.

The new PSU has tube rectified/tripled choke filters for the HV supply, and triple the energy banks for the low voltage sections, as well as additional EMI suppression.It is IMHO a good SQ upgrade.

(the interaction you are referring ,is probably the reaction of the amp only on highly inductive loads during start up/power down. For early units(that is early batch without the shunt ) we provide an external zobel , and the current units have shunt mechanism to avoid this all together.)

Cheers

Thanks.
Post #73 updated