Apogee Full range

[cjfrbw]

Nice to see some Apogee love around here. It's all ancient history to me. I still use a pair of rebuilt Apogee Stage speakers (bought originally 1991) in Santa Cruz, and a pair of Analysis Epsilons for many years in my main system in Pleasanton.

I still think the original Stage is one of the best sounding speakers ever made. I like the Epsilons, too, and frequently listen to the bass panels full range/crossoverless, and they sound great that way, too!

My current thinking is that instead of SET's, the best amplification for panels/ribbons is a VFET amp with a directly heated triode preamplifier. The old Yamaha B2, which will put out 140 watts per channel into 4 ohms with 220 watts transient peak power, would probably drive a lot of Apogees that don't drop below 3 ohms. The Yamaha B2 in my system, with a Manley Neo Classic Preamp using 182b DHT tubes instead of 300b, driving the bass panels as full range speakers in the Analysis Epsilon, sounds better to me than just about anything I have heard at audio shows.

The gentleman that Marty is referring too goes by Gallant Diva at Audiogon. His name is Ish, and he operates a pair of Full Range Apogees with a massive array of TRL tubed amplifiers: https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/5104

 

[bonzo75]

Interesting, I have come across gallant diva while researching the TRL Dude preamp

 

[spiritofmusic]

Hmm, just looked at his systems photos. Apogees stacked flr to ceiling, multiple humungous TRL amps w/more tubes than you can swing a cat at. All in the Texas heat. Nothing TOO extreme, then?

 

[spiritofmusic]

Bonzo, did you get anywhere w/your Danley Labs search?

 

[bonzo75]

Bonzo, did you get anywhere w/your Danley Labs search?

Actually, no. The Stockhom distributor can't demo because there is an UK distributor, but this guy is new, and does not have stock yet. So I am waiting for him to get stock, he is just outside London

 

[spiritofmusic]

Ron, I believe you've talked to Graz in Australia, and have revealed the Definitive is a one-off.
Any more info we can get our teeth into?
For me, the criteria on Advance 7 is whether it's going to be truly SET-friendly, or whether this still remains a bit of an illusion, whether it comes alive at low volumes, and if I can readjust to non cone bass.

 

[bonzo75]

Ron, I believe you've talked to Graz in Australia, and have revealed the Definitive is a one-off.
Any more info we can get our teeth into?
For me, the criteria on Advance 7 is whether it's going to be truly SET-friendly, or whether this still remains a bit of an illusion, whether it comes alive at low volumes, and if I can readjust to non cone bass.

Advance 7 is a prototype, not one off, done the first time. Definitive were a design used 11 years ago

 

[Zero000]

Defintive is a one off only because no one ordered a pair, I expect. Probably only a very few have ever heard them. I'd be surprised if he'd turn down an order, though!

If you want to realise max SPL from a Duetta you'll need half a Kilowatt into 4 Ohms at least to get close to what the speaker will give. However, that's only for the last few DB, where power demand are facing an exponential curve.

Note a Diva type design can hit 115DB.

100 Watts will be fine for all intents and purposes i.e. NAT Transmitter on Advance 7.

Search the Apogee forums Marc - especially the old one for info on the high efficiency Definitve and Synergy.

Ron, I believe you've talked to Graz in Australia, and have revealed the Definitive is a one-off.
Any more info we can get our teeth into?
For me, the criteria on Advance 7 is whether it's going to be truly SET-friendly, or whether this still remains a bit of an illusion, whether it comes alive at low volumes, and if I can readjust to non cone bass.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Justin, I've just sent a PM to you. Spoken to Jon who handles the UK arm of Graz Apogee, and we came to a tentative conclusion that if I come to you and find your sound works for me, then rather go down the Advance 7 route, I go for a parallel spec Duetta Signature as your's (at 40-50% the cost of Advance 7), and spend an extra slice on beefing up my SETs from 60W/ch Nat SE2SE 211s to Nat Transmitters, getting 120W/ch from giant Phillips tetrodes. This would be the better fit in my new proposed triangular 25x15x9 space.

 

[bonzo75]

Justin, I've just sent a PM to you. Spoken to Jon who handles the UK arm of Graz Apogee, and we came to a tentative conclusion that if I come to you and find your sound works for me, then rather go down the Advance 7 route, I go for a parallel spec Duetta Signature as your's (at 40-50% the cost of Advance 7), and spend an extra slice on beefing up my SETs from 60W/ch Nat SE2SE 211s to Nat Transmitters, getting 120W/ch from giant Phillips tetrodes. This would be the better fit in my new proposed triangular 25x15x9 space.

That is Justin's spec, he should start charging for that

 

[spiritofmusic]

Bonzo, for me £20k-25k is the sweet spot for audio. It seems like Jon can make up a pr of Graz Duettas to reasonably top spec a la Justin's Interstellars, at a price commensurate w/Peter's AA Omegas w.custom x'overs. Tbh, w/the budget I need to spend on my loft structural conversion, and the fact that additional funds needed for Transmitter SETs, £20k on Graz/Jon Duettas, £10k on Transmitters, £20k on loft, equates to the price of Advance 7s (Jon confirms that they won't be gotten in UK for under £45-50k).
So, after I a'b Omegas v Duetta Interstellars v Advance 7s in the next several weeks, and do my best to hear Amphytrions, Trios/B'horns and Zu experiences next year w/a little travelling (Monaco/Frankfurt/Munich), and the loft comes on apace, I'll have the research to make a final decision.

 

[Zero000]

Well if there is a Transmitter sale for Peter, then definitely get him to bring the NATs round to my place. It is only a 30-45 odd minute drive for him.

Then you'll know if the combo works. Personally, I think it'll be excellent.

What makes me think you'll like them is your taste in music. Electronic music can produce sounds that literally astonish. Was listening to some Trentemoller the other night (Physical Fraction tracks 2 & 4 on TIDAL). Just staggeringly monumental bass delivery, clarity, "3Dness, speed" etc etc you name it it's there

Justin, I've just sent a PM to you. Spoken to Jon who handles the UK arm of Graz Apogee, and we came to a tentative conclusion that if I come to you and find your sound works for me, then rather go down the Advance 7 route, I go for a parallel spec Duetta Signature as your's (at 40-50% the cost of Advance 7), and spend an extra slice on beefing up my SETs from 60W/ch Nat SE2SE 211s to Nat Transmitters, getting 120W/ch from giant Phillips tetrodes. This would be the better fit in my new proposed triangular 25x15x9 space.

 

[bonzo75]

Bonzo, for me £20k-25k is the sweet spot for audio. It seems like Jon can make up a pr of Graz Duettas to reasonably top spec a la Justin's Interstellars, at a price commensurate w/Peter's AA Omegas w.custom x'overs. Tbh, w/the budget I need to spend on my loft structural conversion, and the fact that additional funds needed for Transmitter SETs, £20k on Graz/Jon Duettas, £10k on Transmitters, £20k on loft, equates to the price of Advance 7s (Jon confirms that they won't be gotten in UK for under £45-50k).
So, after I a'b Omegas v Duetta Interstellars v Advance 7s in the next several weeks, and do my best to hear Amphytrions, Trios/B'horns and Zu experiences next year w/a little travelling (Monaco/Frankfurt/Munich), and the loft comes on apace, I'll have the research to make a final decision.

Yes what I meant is, Justin discussed with Jon and had those interstellars spec'd out over a year or so. He had this long running thread on the rebuild http://www.martinloganowners.com/fo...nature-Rebuild&p=104318&viewfull=1#post104318

After you listen to Omegas and Interstellars, if you prefer the latter, there is not much point listening to Amphis.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Justin, no way is Peter likely to do that. I dearly like and respect him, but he's a very serious and thoughtful individual, feels his AAs are just superior to Apogees, and I don't think would be open. Esp if it loses him a sale! But I can ask. I am very close to signing the cheque on his monster battery-pwrd Nat Magnetostat, I have spent cash w/him already on my Nat Utopia and SE2SE amps, and S/smith S/gauge carts, and a good demo at yr's could very well seal a deal on the Transmitters even if it means I decline the Omegas.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Well if there is a Transmitter sale for Peter, then definitely get him to bring the NATs round to my place. It is only a 30-45 odd minute drive for him.

Then you'll know if the combo works. Personally, I think it'll be excellent.

What makes me think you'll like them is your taste in music. Electronic music can produce sounds that literally astonish. Was listening to some Trentemoller the other night (Physical Fraction tracks 2 & 4 on TIDAL). Just staggeringly monumental bass delivery, clarity, "3Dness, speed" etc etc you name it it's there

Well, most of my collection is rock, electronica, dub, ambient, electric jazz, fusion, 80%. Maybe 20% classical. I have no reason to suspect the Omegas would sound better on the 80% than the Apogees. My issue is that I will stick w/SETs to my dying day, will the Transmitters be a good dynamic match w/spkrs which on the spec sheet at least should be pwrd by SS, is music alive at low volumes or anemic, and can I get used to the wholly different character of bass I'll be presented with?
I'll know for sure in the next several weeks.

 

[bonzo75]

I think you and Justin will get along well, not much into classical. You two should be drinking on Fri and Sat nights at dance clubs in East London

 

[Zero000]

That is Justin's spec, he should start charging for that

Yup I took all the risks they could have turned out like lemons for all I knew

 

[spiritofmusic]

Well, learning to love classical. Some Shostakovich coming up at the Barbican I'm likely to go to, and Handel's Messiah live before Xmas. And Five Seasons by candlelight, all good stuff.
But we probably are brothers in arms re music in common. Re night clubs in E. London, w/him being in the West Country and me soon in Norfolk, prob not. Have you tasted the beer in clubs? Better an evening at a pub w/Real Ale, good grub, and then fire up the Zus/Trios/Duettas (delete as applicable), and relax into whatever genre takes yr fancy. It will be fascinating to throw some dub at the Omegas, or the Trios when I visit Frankfurt or Monaco.
For me, my Zu/SETs synergy speaks to me on the kind of music that Justin and I probably enjoy mutually, but the presentation will be so different, can I get my head around it? Then again, I have melted into horns sound, not so much 'stats, I just don't know what to expect. Looking fwd to the journey.
The decision may in the end come down to Jon Oakey-Graz Duettas w/Nat Transmitter amps at £30k, versus AG Trios w/B'horns at £10k more. Or flagship Zus at £27k.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Yup I took all the risks they could have turned out like lemons for all I knew

Hmm, a little ascerbic in the treble .

 

[Zero000]

Hmm, a little ascerbic in the treble .

It wasn't meant that way... tis just a statement of fact. Lemons suck.