Another should I add vinyl thread

[rando]

Wow, thanks you guys helped me figure out this is way too complex. I’ll stick with digital

You don't say... and it wrote it's own eulogy. Talk about a polite and fulfilling gentleman's hobby. Poof! no leftover loose ends.

If you acquire a basic vinyl set-up and have someone set up the turntable and cartridge properly,* then my answer to you is YES!

This was, in my idealized world, the correct inward looking response. Lamp cord, beginning starts and fits with imperfect playback, attaining records slowly enough you enjoy them to the utmost, and importantly - letting the person best disposed towards answering settle it and send them forth to find their own way in good spirits. What's Best is treating someone with sincere but undeveloped interest to the native underlying joy of return on small labors in this instance.

 

[bonzo75]

Never said it was low cost. I had thought there was a stated budget of $40K. Must have been another thread. My apologies. I consider that a high budget for sure.

You edited out my first sentence that stated this: "This sounds pretty elitist. I know a bunch of people who have gotten into vinyl in the last say five years on tiny budgets. Rega turntables and the new Technics DD. They love them. They don't own many LPs. They are having fun."

This is WBF, so I gave the example of Jeff's new vinyl source which by the standards here seems to be a very high value choice.

40k is another thread.

"I currently have an all digital setup, streaming and stored digital files and ripped CD’s on my Innuos Zen mkIII via Chord Qutest to a PrimaLuna EVO 400i. I have been contemplating adding analog to my system, like a Clearaudio concept table and Hana cartridge."

That's the budget perspective here

 

[PeterA]

40k is another thread.

"I currently have an all digital setup, streaming and stored digital files and ripped CD’s on my Innuos Zen mkIII via Chord Qutest to a PrimaLuna EVO 400i. I have been contemplating adding analog to my system, like a Clearaudio concept table and Hana cartridge."

That's the budget perspective here

I acknowledged that one, and said I have some good friends who bought inexpensive Regas and the new Technics DD tables and love them. Modest budgets and lots of fun. You seem to simply discourage the OP. You are the one saying it can only be done for a high budget. My mistake was mentioning Jeff's new front end. I was thinking of the other thread. Forget that now. I gave other lower budget examples right here that are on topic in that same post. Can we move on here Bonzo?

 

[spiritofmusic]

Weird. Ked champions the vintage Thorens 124 that can form the front of a very creditable analog front end for reasonable money. And yet he's arguing against. There are also nice pieces like the PTP Lenco fronted system, again for the price of an Innuos Zenith plus Yggy. No need to go beyond this.

 

[bonzo75]

Weird. Ked champions the vintage Thorens 124 that can form the front of a very creditable analog front end for reasonable money. And yet he's arguing against. There are also nice pieces like the PTP Lenco fronted system, again for the price of an Innuos Zenith plus Yggy. No need to go beyond this.

You add that, cart, phono, ancillaries, records, it is too expensive in relation to the rest of the system, not to mention inevitable iterations till his set up sounds good. When people start they don't understand all these costs and think it is just the cost of the TT plus cart etc. We should then guide them in understanding the costs rather than say sure, jump in

 

[spiritofmusic]

And streamers dacs switches LPSs USBcbls etc
You can make analog pretty simple if you want

 

[JM1911]

Thanks to all for your post and sharing your passion with me. My budget was only 3500 for table, cartridge, pre. I really hadn’t figured enough for all the extras, vinyl, cleaning, storage etc. I was planning on buying from Upscale as I know they have an extensive analog setup department and I purchased my Primaluna from them.
I feel at this point using some of those funds and moving up in the Innuos line. I am using Qobuz for streaming, but I do purchase a lot of the albums I really like from places like HD tracks. Being the victim of burglary a few years ago I like having a backup copy in the safe.
@Ron Resnick i appreciate your analogy but Ice cream is a lot cheaper to try

 

[Varadero xl 1000 v]

Yes, I know, not another one of these threads, but I am really stuck. I currently have an all digital setup, streaming and stored digital files and ripped CD’s on my Innuos Zen mkIII via Chord Qutest to a PrimaLuna EVO 400i. I have been contemplating adding analog to my system, like a Clearaudio concept table and Hana cartridge. I am NOT hear to debate which one is better. Is it because of sonic qualities or just the nostalgic reasons of spinning vinyl. I just don’t know if I want a turntable because it would be new gear to play with or if I think it has sonic qualities that I am missing with digital. I would have to buy new vinyl as I really only have a few of my albums from when I was teenager in the 80’s, and that was my last experience with vinyl. Maybe I should just put the money towards upgrading digital components. Am I missing something truly special in the audio world if I’m all digital? Thanks for your thoughts

I would tell you this: What do you want to achieve with the purchase of a complete analog system? If you're interested in the best possible audio playback, then yes, build it. Of course the analog sound sounds better. But in which system? And how much money do you have to pay to achieve this?

I will answer what I did:

1. My analog system consists of:

a.Turntable Thorens TD 550

b.Tonearm SME V

c.Cartridge Lyra Etna

d. Phono Stage ASR Basic Exclusive Elkos HV.

2. Digital system:

a. Chord Hugo TT2 Dac

b. Chord MScaler

c. Auralic G 1 Streamers

d. Innuos PheonixUSB

e. Innuos PhoenixNET Nerwork Switch

f. lpsu farad super 3 (2)

g. ?elco ethernet cable

h. Telurium q black usb cable.

i. Qobuz, Tidal steamer

With all of this, analog vs Digital, L.p. sounds much better! So even though I have about 2,000 l.p. I listen more to my digital! Why? Because I like more the convenience and richness of music that I can find in streaming services. But when I want to hear real quality, then I listen to my analog.

The decision is yours. I hope I helped!

 

[Solypsa]

@JM1911
I respect your decision, seems to be made thoughtfully. I would say ( for others in the same boat and with similar budgets ) that it can be done. Something like:
Technics 1200GR turntable
Audio Technica MM cart
Hagermann phono

This would run around $2k to $2.7k depending on cart and phono models selected and be all new equipment. Of course fun can be had with vintage too.

I believe vinyl scales very well and while the above system will not come close to showing what a 20k and up setup can do it will still be great to listen to...

 

[gds7368]

I'm not you but based on reading the first half of the thread (the part that is on topic) you're probably making the right decision. Though, you can get past the setup complexity by paying someone to do set-up for you. Vinyl is not about convenience. In some ways it's a constant fret.

A different path to the same place is to ask yourself how do you use a remote control? Do you listen to individual songs or an entire album at a time? If you like to mix things up using the remote, you can do something like that with vinyl but it's not really 'fun' - get up stop the tt, take the record off, put it away, take out another record, mount it on the table, cue the tonearm to the song you want, then sit and listen for the length of the song - rinse and repeat.

Something no one remembers to mention is one of the main reasons people left vinyl and started using CDs, namely scratchy, noisey records. That translates to the relative necessity of cleaning your records. You can do that for a while with new records using a brush, but if so they'll eventually become scratchy and noisey. At some point you'll need to wash your records and unless you want to spend a lot of time on that, you'll need to acquire a vinyl cleaning machine. Actually not eventually - it should be part of your initial budget.

Vinyl can sound better than digital although it takes a fair amount of money to get analog sound beyond really good digital. A question for someone considering adding another source: do you want two fairly decent source systems or would you prefer one really good one?

Which record cleaning machine(s) do you recommend?

 

[TooCool4]

JM1911 I know you have now decided to upgrade your digital, I would like to say your budget of $3500 is very doable. It’s all about choosing wisely and getting the correct synergy.

Everyone has different expectations, someone that is use to spending $3500 on a cartridge will not be happy getting a complete turntable system for that same amount. Someone new coming in will be very happy spending that and will be very surprised at the sound quality they can get for your $3500 all in.

 

[TooCool4]

Which record cleaning machine(s) do you recommend?

There are many record cleaners out there, many different technology’s they all do the job to a fashion.

One thing I cannot stand with a lot of record cleaners are the noise, most are noisy.
I personally run a Loricraft which is like the Keith Monks, the best thing about it is it’s very quiet. I can run it in the same room and still listen to music, the other ones you need ear defenders while using.

 

[tima]

Which record cleaning machine(s) do you recommend?

Hi -

I've had a Loricraft PRC-3 which is a point-nozzle vacuum machine similar to the Keith Monks machine. I still have it. You apply cleaning solution and rinse water to the record and the Loricraft vacuums the record dry. It takes several steps and some time as you do each record side.

I've owned an Audio Desk Systeme which rotates a record through a combination of brushes and ultrasonic cavitation then uses a fan to dry the record. It cleans both sides of record at once. Its push button process is largely automated in a single step. I sold it.

Although these two machines are completely different from one another, either can do an 'okay' job clearning a single record at a time.

I have studied just about every machine on the market in some detail. At this point I recommend building your own RCM which allows cleaning multiple records at a time. This, imo, can be done with off-the-shelf parts for less money and yield better results with higher efficiency than any out-of-the-box desktop machine made today. You can also spend a bit more and get even better results.

Consider the WBF thread "tima's DIY RCM". I've actually gone a step beyond the descriptions there that I have not published yet. If you have questions kindly post in that thread.

Fyi, like so much in audio the whole record cleaning topic can take on a certain religious fervor for some folks.

PS - You have a nice stereo.

 

[JM1911]

Well, just following up on this since its been a while. After months of debating I bought a turntable last week. I was going to go small to see if it was for me, but I found a deal on a demo from a local dealer that had less than 35 hours on the cart and table. I bought a VPI Prime Scout with an Ortofon Quintet Blue and a Sutherland KC Vibe mkII pre. Let me say, I am so glad I did. I really enjoy listening, and maybe its just because I am still in the honeymoon phase with it but I prefer it over digital. I bought some fresh vinyl over the weekend and actually picked up 2 albums which I also own the hi-res digitals I purchased from HD tracks and I much prefer the vinyl. It just sounds different, so much more open compared to the digital version saved on my Innuos Zenith mkIII. I am happy I made the move.

 

[TooCool4]

JM1911 nice one enjoy.

 

[Addicted to hifi]

Well, just following up on this since its been a while. After months of debating I bought a turntable last week. I was going to go small to see if it was for me, but I found a deal on a demo from a local dealer that had less than 35 hours on the cart and table. I bought a VPI Prime Scout with an Ortofon Quintet Blue and a Sutherland KC Vibe mkII pre. Let me say, I am so glad I did. I really enjoy listening, and maybe its just because I am still in the honeymoon phase with it but I prefer it over digital. I bought some fresh vinyl over the weekend and actually picked up 2 albums which I also own the hi-res digitals I purchased from HD tracks and I much prefer the vinyl. It just sounds different, so much more open compared to the digital version saved on my Innuos Zenith mkIII. I am happy I made the move.

Congratulations on the vpi,it’s a very nice turntable.

 

[Kingrex]

Be sure to clean all vinyl. Even new. New vinyl not cleaned can get a gunk on the needle that is hard to remove. Old vinyl with dirt will file the edges of your needle into a cutting lathe. Then you ruin your needle and records.

I hand wash. Read Tima's thread on record cleaning machines. I tried ultrasonic but the investment became to steep. I hand wash and vacuum dry.

 

[sombunya]

I digitize my vinyl so I can play it in the car. No, I don't have a high end car system. Plus the music I listen to is noisy, to say the least.

I have a Music Hall MMF 9.1 and a recently replaced Denon DL-103R cart. It doesn't break the bank. I am using a center weight and periphery clamp.

So, I'm taking an analog signal and converting it to digital. I have a large vinyl collection and I'm doing what I want because there are no rules.

 

[nickif]

Thanks to all for your post and sharing your passion with me. My budget was only 3500 for table, cartridge, pre. I really hadn’t figured enough for all the extras, vinyl, cleaning, storage etc. I was planning on buying from Upscale as I know they have an extensive analog setup department and I purchased my Primaluna from them.
I feel at this point using some of those funds and moving up in the Innuos line. I am using Qobuz for streaming, but I do purchase a lot of the albums I really like from places like HD tracks. Being the victim of burglary a few years ago I like having a backup copy in the safe.
@Ron Resnick i appreciate your analogy but Ice cream is a lot cheaper to try

I’d say don’t think too much, Vinyl is no that complicated but extremely enjoyable in the long run. Yes it’s costly but if you are in this hobby you‘ve probably known that already: everything in our hobby can be costly. Maybe I can share my vinyl story:

I started buying vinyl before acquiring a turntable, my first set up was a Dr. F Blackbrid, thales simplicity arm, Ikeda Kai cartridge and I was not even listening to speakers, instead I listened to vinyl in a headphone system which is not that ideal, that’s why I gave up quickly and sold off the turntable. Fortunately I didn’t sell any of the records.

Several years later, I finally set up a good speaker system listening to digital happily but I always had the itch to set up a vinyl front-end to to able to appreciate those records(300+) I‘ve acquired over the years. This time I wanted to do it right and went for the best Turntable I could afford which was an AMG Viella Forte, AMG 12JT turbo arm and a Benz Gullwing cartridge; Phono was a modest Luxman EQ500. When dealer helped me set all up and the first needle dropped, I know I‘ve probably made the best decision in my whole audio journey. It just sounded incredible! More density, more air, more flow, better stage, better image… and this is compared to my digital which is a killer digital front-end.

It’s been more than two years since then and I seldom listen to digital anymore, even though AMG Viella Forte is a great table it didn’t last for 1 year before I upgraded it lol, and now I’m seriously considering adding another table and maybe two more arms to play around with. Yes, Vinyl is addictive, lots and lots of fun!

P.S. If you have to buy albums, please buy vinyl, in addition to vintage there are so many great reissues out there at reasonable price. I regret every penny that I spent on downloading hirez file, you just never feel you ”OWN” any of them. Vinyl albums are much better in that sense.

Michael

 

[nickif]

Well, just following up on this since its been a while. After months of debating I bought a turntable last week. I was going to go small to see if it was for me, but I found a deal on a demo from a local dealer that had less than 35 hours on the cart and table. I bought a VPI Prime Scout with an Ortofon Quintet Blue and a Sutherland KC Vibe mkII pre. Let me say, I am so glad I did. I really enjoy listening, and maybe its just because I am still in the honeymoon phase with it but I prefer it over digital. I bought some fresh vinyl over the weekend and actually picked up 2 albums which I also own the hi-res digitals I purchased from HD tracks and I much prefer the vinyl. It just sounds different, so much more open compared to the digital version saved on my Innuos Zenith mkIII. I am happy I made the move.

Oh wow, just saw this and what a relief…

I’m so glad you did it! Congrats and have fun, it’s gonna be a long and fruitful journey!