Another should I add vinyl thread

[christoph]

Wow, thanks you guys helped me figure out this is way too complex. I’ll stick with digital

And factoring in that you have almost no vinyl of your own yet makes it a no brainer to skip vinyl and enjoy the endless variety on offer at your fingertip from streaming
If you can, I would go for Qobuz as streaming service as Qobuz sounds better than Tidal IME
And you can avoid that MQA nonsense

 

[christoph]

Yes. I'm not a newbie but holding a $15k cartridge between my fingers is still pretty darn intimidating... especially if it doesn't have a stylus guard.

And imagine that this precious little piece of jewelry is damned to be worn completely after something around 1000 hours and needs to be rebuilt for mostly half the new price or be replaced completely for a symbolic trade in fee
Don't get me wrong, I really do love the sound of very good vinyl a lot but for me it is just way too much hassle

 

[christoph]

I'm not you but based on reading the first half of the thread (the part that is on topic) you're probably making the right decision. Though, you can get past the setup complexity by paying someone to do set-up for you. Vinyl is not about convenience. In some ways it's a constant fret.

A different path to the same place is to ask yourself how do you use a remote control? Do you listen to individual songs or an entire album at a time? If you like to mix things up using the remote, you can do something like that with vinyl but it's not really 'fun' - get up stop the tt, take the record off, put it away, take out another record, mount it on the table, cue the tonearm to the song you want, then sit and listen for the length of the song - rinse and repeat.

Something no one remembers to mention is one of the main reasons people left vinyl and started using CDs, namely scratchy, noisey records. That translates to the relative necessity of cleaning your records. You can do that for a while with new records using a brush, but if so they'll eventually become scratchy and noisey. At some point you'll need to wash your records and unless you want to spend a lot of time on that, you'll need to acquire a vinyl cleaning machine. Actually not eventually - it should be part of your initial budget.

Vinyl can sound better than digital although it takes a fair amount of money to get analog sound beyond really good digital. A question for someone considering adding another source: do you want two fairly decent source systems or would you prefer one really good one?

Absolutely excellent posting, tima

 

[tima]

Absolutely excellent posting, tima

Thank you Christoph. I'm of mixed mind on this ... as someone who does analog only I want the medium to remain viable and new vinyl lovers help maintain the niche. On the other hand, I'd rather someone not spend a bunch of money on analog and end up dissapointed. Laying out the realities of each medium so someone can decide for themselves seems the way to go.

If you can, I would go for Qobuz as streaming service as Qobuz sounds better than Tidal

I know people have preferences for different streaming services yet to me as a vinyl person this is kind of remarkable. Do some services have better digits than others?

 

[christoph]

...as someone who does analog only I want the medium to remain viable and new vinyl lovers help maintain the niche. On the other hand, I'd rather someone not spend a bunch of money on analog and end up dissapointed. Laying out the realities of each medium so someone can decide for themselves seems the way to go.

Exactly that is the point.
And for you to offer that kind of information as a vinyl only guy makes your input even more valuable as you don't just show the "romatic side" of vinyl playback. Kudos for that

I also feel the OP is better off skipping vinyl, as I did btw.

Still I really love the excellent vinyl playback I can enjoy at my friend Michael's place

 

[Ron Resnick]

. . .

I think you are trying to impose your analog preference on him

I am encouraging him to explore vinyl. You are discouraging him to explore vinyl on your assumption that (like you) he wants to be able to play hundreds of records, and on your assumption that (like you) he will not be happy with vinyl unless he can play hundreds of records.

 

[bonzo75]

I am encouraging him to explore vinyl. You are discouraging him to explore vinyl on your assumption that (like you) he wants to be able to play hundreds of records, and on your assumption that (like you) he will not be happy with vinyl unless he can play hundreds of records.

I really think it is unfair to encourage people explore analog unless they have significantly high budgets.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Plenty of classical vinyl off Ebay for all budgets.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Wow, thanks you guys helped me figure out this is way too complex. I’ll stick with digital

While this is a fun thread, respectfully, I think your question is like asking other people if you should decline to try ice cream for the first time because it might be too cold. Why don't you go to a friend's house with a good vinyl set-up, listen to your favorite music on it, and hear how it sounds to you and see how it makes you feel?

 

[Ron Resnick]

I really think it is unfair to encourage people explore analog unless they have significantly high budgets.

Now this concern I can understand. I believe we are at very different points on the vinyl/digital costs indifference curves.

I have heard MSBs and Lampizators numerous times. I truly would prefer, for my own system and listening preferences, to have a US$10,000 turntable + tonearm + cartridge* than a US$50,000 (and maybe higher) DAC.

I totally respect that you disagree.

*A VPI combination package (which they completely set up for the buyer, I believe), for example, is one of many possibilities.

 

[bonzo75]

Now this concern I can understand. I believe we are at very different points on the vinyl/digital costs indifference curves.

I have heard MSBs and Lampizators numerous times. I truly would prefer, for my own system and listening preferences, to have a US$10,000 turntable + tonearm + cartridge than a US$50,000 (and maybe higher) DAC.

I totally respect that you disagree.

Sorry completely different topics. Please see his system budget. You can see the rest of his system.


That aside, you have hardly bothered to investigate a MSB or Lampi system so I will ignore that misrepresentation from you. After much chasing by the forum you would have pretended to pay some attention to Keith's MSB and audioquattr's Lampi but that is just so that you can self certify yourself to post on the forum on digital

Also I think we both got our point across so no point laboring it

 

[PeterA]

I really think it is unfair to encourage people explore analog unless they have significantly high budgets.

This sounds pretty elitist. I know a bunch of people who have gotten into vinyl in the last say five years on tiny budgets. Rega turntables and the new Technics DD. They love them. They don't own many LPs. They are having fun.

I understand that WBF is about what's best, but these friends would think a budget of $40K is ludicrous. Jeffrey_T just got a refurbished Gerrard 401, nice plinth, 3012R, an Ortofon SPU, a Lamm phono, stock phono cable and is THRILLED with the sound. He prefers this source to his much more expensive Ascona table. Through in a record cleaning machine, and have a friend teach you about set up and you are there. Now he has thousands of LPs, but searching for them and buying and collecting them is part of the fun. Jeff's all in vinyl source cost is well below $40K so there is money left over for LPs. One can buy high quality, great value on the used market.

I think the OP asks a good question and I have enjoyed the responses. There is no right answer for everyone. JM1911 has some good information to consider. The answer will reside in his exposure to good vinyl sound. He will then know if the reward is worth the considerble effort people are describing. This is why I think this is one of the most personal hobbies around. There are so many ways to approach it. Only the individual truly knows what is right for him, or he learns it over time. Choices often involve risks. Can't think of it on a cost per LP or listen basis. Ron and Jeff occupy different ends of the spectrum here on WBF, IMO, both in terms of numbers of LPs and cost of their vinyl front ends and that ratio, and yet they both enjoy vinyl tremendously.

 

[microstrip]

(...) I like tinker and tweak, and the rewards are high when you do on the vinyl front. !

Yes, vinyl is much more adequate to tinker and tweak. But we can easily have an extremely stable top vinyl system - at some period my SME 30/ SMEV/ Sumiko Palos Santos was only touched to play LPs. And the TechDas AF1P / Graham Phantom are now in such stable condition.

Buy I still dream about having the time to tinker and tweak the Forsell Air Force one ...

 

[Ron Resnick]

. . .

That aside, you have hardly bothered to investigate a MSB or Lampi system so I will ignore that misrepresentation from you. After much chasing by the forum you would have pretended to pay some attention to Keith's MSB and audioquattr's Lampi but that is just so that you can self certify yourself to post on the forum on digital

Also I think we both got our point across so no point laboring it

I disagree with your embedded snarkiness.

audioquattr's SGM Extreme + Lampizator Pacific is the best digital I have ever heard. I still preferred his vinyl set-up.

 

[bonzo75]

This sounds pretty elitist. I know a bunch of people who have gotten into vinyl in the last say five years on tiny budgets. Rega turntables and the new Technics DD. They love them. They don't own many LPs. They are having fun.

I understand that WBF is about what's best, but these friends would think a budget of $40K is ludicrous. Jeffrey_T just got a refurbished Gerrard 401, nice plinth, 3012R, an Ortofon SPU, a Lamm phono, stock phono cable and is THRILLED with the sound. He prefers this source to his much more expensive Ascona table. Through in a record cleaning machine, and have a friend teach you about set up and you are there. Now he has thousands of LPs, but searching for them and buying and collecting them is part of the fun. Jeff's all in vinyl source cost is well below $40K so there is money left over for LPs. One can buy high quality, great value on the used market.

I think the OP asks a good question and I have enjoyed the responses. There is no right answer for everyone. JM1911 has some good information to consider. The answer will reside in his exposure to good vinyl sound. He will then know if the reward is worth the considerble effort people are describing. This is why I think this is one of the most personal hobbies around. There are so many ways to approach it. Only the individual truly knows what is right for him, or he learns it over time. Choices often involve risks. Can't think of it on a cost per LP or listen basis. Ron and Jeff occupy different ends of the spectrum here on WBF, IMO, both in terms of numbers of LPs and cost of their vinyl front ends and that ratio, and yet they both enjoy vinyl tremendously.

"Jeffrey_T just got a refurbished Gerrard 401, nice plinth, 3012R, an Ortofon SPU, a Lamm phono, stock phono cable and is THRILLED with the sound. He prefers this source to his much more expensive Ascona table."

Seriously? That is a low cost TT set up? Have you looked at the OP's other system components and thought of how that analog set up plus record cost compares to the rest of the system? Assuming he gets it right first go. I doubt this was Jefferey's first set up

 

[spiritofmusic]

There are a ton of low cost, high quality analog setups ($5-10k), excellent record cleaning machines, and a stack of cheap vinyl via Ebay. Just do it.

 

[microstrip]

I really think it is unfair to encourage people explore analog unless they have significantly high budgets.

IMHO each case is a different case. This is an hobby and at the end what matters is our enjoyment. Many people will be very happy with a Rega vinyl system and enjoy their preferred music with it.

Do you think that in order to enjoy analog we must explore it?

 

[bonzo75]

IMHO each case is a different case. This is an hobby and at the end what matters is our enjoyment. Many people will be very happy with a Rega vinyl system and enjoy their preferred music with it.

Do you think that in order to enjoy analog we must explore it?

How will be know what to buy otherwise? Will his first set up be successful?

 

[PeterA]

"Jeffrey_T just got a refurbished Gerrard 401, nice plinth, 3012R, an Ortofon SPU, a Lamm phono, stock phono cable and is THRILLED with the sound. He prefers this source to his much more expensive Ascona table."

Seriously? That is a low cost TT set up? Have you looked at the OP's other system components and thought of how that analog set up plus record cost compares to the rest of the system? Assuming he gets it right first go. I doubt this was Jefferey's first set up

Never said it was low cost. I had thought there was a stated budget of $40K. Must have been another thread. My apologies. I consider that a high budget for sure.

You edited out my first sentence that stated this: "This sounds pretty elitist. I know a bunch of people who have gotten into vinyl in the last say five years on tiny budgets. Rega turntables and the new Technics DD. They love them. They don't own many LPs. They are having fun."

This is WBF, so I gave the example of Jeff's new vinyl source which by the standards here seems to be a very high value choice.

 

[microstrip]

(...)
audioquattr's SGM Extreme + Lampizator Pacific is the best digital I have ever heard. I still preferred his vinyl set-up.

This just shows that in audioquattr's room and system using the selection of recordings you listened you preferred vinyl.