Amp Stand for Heavy Amp on Wood Floor?

Atmasphere

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Okay - but that is not born out in practice in many cases. I use my SRA Virginia-Class amp stands as a model. I know you and Kevin know each other so I'll defer to him. SRA says to put the component on the platform as is, with nothing between the component's feet and the platform. The somewhat hard rubber(?) feet of my amps do not make what I'd call a rigid coupling with the top of the amp stand - yes more rigid than Sorbothane (what isn't?) The amp stand itself sits on the floor via points/spikes. The outer platform the amp sits on is decoupled (partially by vacuum.) from from the interior platform that holds the feet - that isolates the platform the amp sits on from the floor. Viscoelastics and proprietary paint absorb energy from the component and direct it away from the component.

While a squishy separates a component from a shelf it can still intake energy from above and below. I suppose they can be isolators in a limited sense though I've always understood them more as dissipators/disintegrators/scatterors. I agree about platforms when they are systems.

I believe there can be different ways to build a platform with different constructions yielding different results. And I agree that 'you have to work this stuff out.'
We have SRA platforms here at the shop as well. I like them a lot. Since they have their own suspension you really don't have to worry too much about what you place them on. My impression of the SRA platform is that its meant as you say to isolate the equipment from vibration. I found that the SRA helped even if you don't use points between the equipment and the platform, but it seemed a bit better when we did.

Anytime you see isomeric devices used, they are performing the work of isolation. A friend of mine who is a mechanical engineering professor at the UofM gave me a lesson on that topic years ago when I was assisting him mounting a Norton engine back into its frame (the Norton Commando 850 engine was isomerically mounted).

My old Scully lathe had a table that used a platform with isomeric footers that engaged the table. The platform used dissimilar materials to reduced vibration and had cutouts and footers attached to mount the actual lathe and its cutter drive transmission. Obviously they were very concerned about how vibration might affect the final product! Ampex used isomeric mounts on their circuit boards in their famous 351 tube record electronics (to reduce the effectsof microphonics); while isomerics always will dissipate some energy, their primary function is always isolation.
 
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Ron Resnick

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I now have a toy box full of Sorbothane hemispheres, Sorbothane discs, Herbie Coasters and Gobstoppers.

from top to bottom:

VTL amp spikes

Herbie Coasters

The bottom of the Herbie Coasters have felt. I could put Sorbothane discs underneath the coasters and above the walnut butcherblock.

walnut butcherblock

Sorbothane hemispheres

wood floor over concrete slab

This would mean squishing on top and squishing on the bottom . . .
 

Cellcbern

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I now have a toy box full of Sorbothane hemispheres, Sorbothane discs, Herbie Coasters and Gobstoppers.

from top to bottom:

VTL amp spikes

Herbie Coasters

The bottom of the Herbie Coasters have felt. I could put Sorbothane discs underneath the coasters and above the walnut butcherblock.

walnut butcherblock

Sorbothane hemispheres

wood floor over concrete slab

This would mean squishing on top and squishing on the bottom . . .
Seems like you keep asking the same question, which has been answered for you multiple times by multiple people. Your floor construction is irrelevant if you decouple the amp platform from the floor. Sorbothane between the butcherblock and the floor will provide (some) decoupling/isolation. Butcherblock is neither inert nor absorbing/dissipating but somewhere in between. If the amp is coupled to it via spikes/spike cup it will dissipate some amplifier resonance in the pore structure of the wood and also in the sorbothane underneath it but may also send some resonance back up the spikes to the amp which may subtly change ("tune") the amps' resonant signature. This may or may not be significant or objectionable and could be pleasant - you would have to listen to find out. Not sure which Herbie's Audio Lab product a "coaster" is but if there is felt, polymer, teflon - anything between the metal bottom surface of the "coaster" and the butcher block then you will not have complete coupling of the amp to the butcher block. If you put sorbothane under the spike cups ("coasters') or anyplace between the amp and the butcher block then you will be decoupling the amp from the butcher block. In that case you would be relying solely on the Sorbothane above the butcherblock to absorb/dissipate amplifier resonance and the butcherblock would be providing isolation (via the sorbothane below it) only. If I was committed to butcherblock and had what is in your "toy box" I would couple the amps to the butcherblock and decouple the butcherblock from the floor with no "squishy" material above the butcherblock. Rather than continuing to go "round and round" with this why don't you just experiment with what you have - try it both ways and see what sounds best to you?
 
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Ron Resnick

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Thank you for the understandable recap, and for your excellent advice!

Yes, the way forward is to experiment with and without Sorbothane underneath the Herbie coasters.
 

Atmasphere

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Thank you for the understandable recap, and for your excellent advice!

Yes, the way forward is to experiment with and without Sorbothane underneath the Herbie coasters.
No- the way forward is to skip the Herbie coasters entirely- they defeat (more or less depending on how effective they are) the purpose of the VTL spikes. Let them do their job by coupling the equipment (amp?) chassis directly into the butcher block.

I expect variable results, simply because butcher block isn't inert.
 

Ron Resnick

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. . . VTL spikes. Let them do their job by coupling the equipment (amp?) chassis directly into the butcher block.

Thank you for your advice.

In theory how does vibration propagated to the amplifiers by sound pressure get dissipated or absorbed if there is nothing squishy directly underneath the feet of the amplifier?
 

Salectric

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All this theory talk only takes you so far. What really matters is how a particular footer or platform affects the sound, and there is only one way to determine this. You have to put it in and listen.
 

Cellcbern

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Thank you for your advice.

In theory how does vibration propagated to the amplifiers by sound pressure get dissipated or absorbed if there is nothing squishy directly underneath the feet of the amplifier?
By transfer of vibrational energy to the footers or platform the amp is coupled to where it is dissipated via movement and/or as heat.
 

Ron Resnick

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By transfer of vibrational energy to the footers or platform the amp is coupled to where it is dissipated via movement and/or as heat.

I thought a material had to be squishy to dissipate motion as heat.

Can hardwood dissipate motion as heat? Can Corian dissipate motion as heat?
 

MarkusBarkus

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All this theory talk only takes you so far.
...I think this statement is both accurate and helpful. The modeling required to answer Ron's deceptively simple question looks to me akin to modeling planetary weather. It would have many variables and would be unique to the specific application/gear/room/volume/assumptions/etc.

I think it's easier to simply isolate gear as described by Norman Varney and others. BTW: the last page in the December TAS has a Q&A with Mr. Varney. How timely...
 

Ron Resnick

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+1 Try EVPs. No 'magic or secrets but science and proven

EVP appears to be a squishy sandwich. It looks fine to me.
 

Cellcbern

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I thought a material had to be squishy to dissipate motion as heat.

Can hardwood dissipate motion as heat? Can Corian dissipate motion as heat?
I thought a material had to be squishy to dissipate motion as heat.

Can hardwood dissipate motion as heat? Can Corian dissipate motion as heat?
Maybe it isn’t technically dissipation as heat but rather as friction (which produces heat). Whether it is mdf, wood, sand, iron powder (e.g., TAOC board), micro bearing steel in a flat box, etc., vibrations/resonances bouncing around in spaces/against boundaries within a pore structure dissipate their energy.
 

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Ron Resnick

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No- the way forward is to skip the Herbie coasters entirely- they defeat (more or less depending on how effective they are) the purpose of the VTL spikes. Let them do their job by coupling the equipment (amp?) chassis directly into the butcher block.

I expect variable results, simply because butcher block isn't inert.

I could take the spikes off the bottoms of the amps and just rest the corners of the amps on Sorbothane pads. Is that to you a more satisfactory strategy? This would allow squishing on top and squishing on the bottom.
 

Maril555

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I could take the spikes off the bottoms of the amps and just rest the corners of the amps on Sorbothane pads. Is that to you a more satisfactory strategy? This would allow squishing on top and squishing on the bottom.
That feels like a lot of squishing is going on there...???
 

retired farmer

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Well on my wood floor room it was really bouncy so I screwed 3/4 inch mdf to the floor a screw eight inches apart each way with pl all over it. Then layed new wall to wall carpet on top of it. That was big as the floors were at least solid feeling that they were not before that treatment. On top of the carpet I put 2.5 inch thick wide rosewood blocks that were spiked. I found what I liked the best was one piece board not a glue up. Since that time the sale of rosewood is very much like ivory worldwide so it is basically unavailable. I have tuned to purple heart and paduk. Both are very dense I like woods that sink in water not float. Ebony would likely be the best. Never have I found a slab big enough to try. Ebony block work very well under some components. Then the amps had spiked feet. I didn't experiment much or at all in the new place I bought a couple of paduk slabs and build leveling spikes into them that can be adjusted from the top three spikes and set the levinson 33h s on top of each block. With just the factory feet on the amps. I am not strong enough anymore after the motorcycle wreck to play around with feet between the amps and the planks. This setup is on concrete. But as a basic thing I like stereo components on thick dense hardwood under each piece. In my bedroom I had my krell kps20i on top of my hardwood dresser and as soon as I slid a plank of rosewood underneath it it was wonderful sounding. Purple heart is similar but I like some pieces on purple heart better than rosewood and vise versa. My top adjustable spikes are easy as far as placement goes but do look farmer. Lol. Drill the three holes through the plank exactly measured distance from the corners and then the one centered in the back. Insert thread nuts for lack of the correct name. They fit tight in the holes. Then I cut the nights of ready rod. Threaded rod. Then put them in the lathe and cut a long taper on them. Screw them into the blocks and leave some stick out through the top of the board double nut them so the nuts are locked together but I also put lock tight on the threads. Then when you get the component on top of the block it is really easy to level it front to back and side to side. Easy even on the 200 pound 33h s. I personally love the farmer look most of you fellows would likely not like it which is fine. Forgot to say I harden the points or the spike end by heating up with a oxygen acetylene torch and quench them in oil. Lol then the cleanup. I will see if I have a picture that you can see my spikes on if so I will post it. Lol.

Regards Tom
 
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Atmasphere

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I could take the spikes off the bottoms of the amps and just rest the corners of the amps on Sorbothane pads. Is that to you a more satisfactory strategy? This would allow squishing on top and squishing on the bottom.
The job of the platform is to convert energy into heat. A good platform will be far better at this than Sorbathane or the like. But to do that the equipment has to be coupled into it so that any air borne vibration that is imparted to the equipment is instantly stopped by the platform. You need points to couple to the platform.

If you decouple the equipment from the platform by using Sorbathane or the like you are defeating the purpose of the platform. I think you'll find at that point that you could remove the platform and hear no difference at all. The platform can only do its job if the equipment is rigidly coupled to it and for that you use points.
 

Ron Resnick

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Thank you for this careful analysis!

And the foregoing is correct in this idiosyncratic case even though the platform is simple butcherblock, which you advise us is resonant?
 

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