Alexx V arrive in NJ

[matakana]

What I suggested pages ago

frustration, frustration, frustrationnnnnnns, us audiophiles have all been there at one time or another, Marty has expressed his satisfaction with the JC1+ so why not sit back and take more time with these ? no real rush, enjoy for a while. Do some tweaking by trying some of them qsa fuses, look at what S O S has advised in the grounding box thread, his Bricasti system now is where he thought was not possible, A suspension of disbelief !! Slowly but surely.

Or is it the JC1+ are too cheap and cant possibly be the end game amps!!!

 

[Elliot G.]

Pairing in the high-end is many times due to distribution arrangements, not sound parameters.

Sometimes old brands have arrangements since long, even friendship relations, life is not easy to more recent brands.


I've been thinking for a long time to talk about how the Audio Industry really works without the B.S. I m just not sure that anyone really wants to discuss this and get rid of all the conspiracy theorists. It certainly is not appropriate in this thread and its context.

 

[marty]

If i had CH M10 mono and Wilson and not happy for the sound,i will keep CH M10 and changed speaker for sure

Good one, Gian! Ultimate satisfaction demands ultimate sacrifice!! Maybe I should change houses as well? HA!

 

[marty]

ok, let the record show that you started it.

i know of a guy who owned the Wilson Alexx (reviewed them) and now owns XVX's (reviewed those too) who likes the dart 468's plenty.......Mr. Fremer. he's sampled a few amps. some local Seattle friends were there a couple months ago doing some electrical work and were amazed at what they heard. one of them just bought a dart 108 amp to replace his tubes.

and there's this guy Jacob Heilbrunn who's got the big WAMM's who likes the 468's too. he has a big room. we are waiting for his review. but a phone call could be arranged.

seems like a trend.

Marty could drive to hear both in a day.

the 468's are also around 2 bills (the big one's) and Michael and Jacob seem to like the bass weight. i know i do not have flabby bass. it has zero global feedback but finds a way. why mess around?

just say'n.

Excellent thoughts Mike. My concern is that the needs a 92 dB efficient speaker is quite different from a 96 dB efficient one. With the CH, I was actually surprised to see the power usage exceed 1.1 KW a good deal of the time when playing symphonic music at realistic orchestral levels. Also keep in mind that your bass gets a great assist from the 2KW amps in your woofer towers that greatly contribute below 100 Hz. That's a significant consideration here as well. Thus, I just don't know that the 468 would be a satisfying choice for my system.

 

[gian60]

Good one, Gian! Ultimate satisfaction demands ultimate sacrifice!! Maybe I should change houses as well? HA!

Dear Marty sorry
But i live CH and don't like a lot Wilson,all model i listen
I
Speak very friendly

 

[Kingsrule]

Excellent thoughts Mike. My concern is that the needs a 92 dB efficient speaker is quite different from a 96 dB efficient one. With the CH, I was actually surprised to see the power usage exceed 1.1 KW a good deal of the time when playing symphonic music at realistic orchestral levels. Also keep in mind that your bass gets a great assist from the 2KW amps in your woofer towers that greatly contribute below 100 Hz. That's a significant consideration here as well. Thus, I just don't know that the 468 would be a satisfying choice for my system.

My thoughts exactly regarding the 468's. I actually had a deal in place and backed off because of this concern. Besides MikeL. Heilbrunn's system also has separate amplified sub towers. Fremer's room is small so that has to be a consideration IMO for a full range installation. The 468 review was also suspect in the measurement department if I recall correctly....
And then there is the dealer network here in the states (there basically isn't one)

 

[gian60]

I am reading now the italian magazine Audio Review that this month are trying L1 and M1.1 mono with Vivid Audio G1 Spirit
The reporter wrote,in my very big experience I listened many top amp but i never listened the bass better than this
This is the low frequency better,deeper,fast,articulate and precise i listen In my life
So i don’t understand

 

[Steve Williams]

I am reading now the italian magazine Audio Review that this month are trying L1 and M1.1 mono with Vivid Audio G1 Spirit
The reporter wrote,in my very big experience I listened many top amp but i never listened the bass better than this
This is the low frequency better,deeper,fast,articulate and precise i listen In my life
So i don’t understand

I have heard the G1 Spirit and IMO the bass is absolutely phenomenal no matter which amp you use. I heard it in Philip O'Hanlon's huge listening room paired with several Gryphon amps

 

[marty]

Dear Marty sorry
But i live CH and don't like a lot Wilson,all model i listen
I
Speak very friendly

No problem. I understood the context. No offense taken.
And regarding the bass of the CH, believe me, i don't understand it either!

 

[Mike Lavigne]

My thoughts exactly regarding the 468's. I actually had a deal in place and backed off because of this concern. Besides MikeL. Heilbrunn's system also has separate amplified sub towers. Fremer's room is small so that has to be a consideration IMO for a full range installation. The 468 review was also suspect in the measurement department if I recall correctly....
And then there is the dealer network here in the states (there basically isn't one)

asked and answered (see below). plus.......darTZeel owners are well served in the USA. it's not an accident they are among the most loyal and devoted. they are mostly end points, not a spot on the path. it's not the answer to everyone's question. but for many it is.

darTZeel NHB-468 mono blocks in my system

Congratulations Mike. Remind me to never listen to 468s so I don't decide that my 108 is completely inadequate ;)The new 108s have a similar design to the 468s... really just a lesser version.

www.whatsbestforum.com

 

[dcc]

Excellent thoughts Mike. My concern is that the needs a 92 dB efficient speaker is quite different from a 96 dB efficient one. With the CH, I was actually surprised to see the power usage exceed 1.1 KW a good deal of the time when playing symphonic music at realistic orchestral levels. Also keep in mind that your bass gets a great assist from the 2KW amps in your woofer towers that greatly contribute below 100 Hz. That's a significant consideration here as well. Thus, I just don't know that the 468 would be a satisfying choice for my system.

I discussed this with Hervé Delétraz when he was at my house for a home demo of the 468 about ten days ago. He indicated, that compared to the CH amp meters, the values showing on the 468 would be more than half of the ones showing on a CH amp. My loudspeakers are 92dB efficient. We listened at quite realistic levels and the max peak I saw was 275 W.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Excellent thoughts Mike. My concern is that the needs a 92 dB efficient speaker is quite different from a 96 dB efficient one. With the CH, I was actually surprised to see the power usage exceed 1.1 KW a good deal of the time when playing symphonic music at realistic orchestral levels. Also keep in mind that your bass gets a great assist from the 2KW amps in your woofer towers that greatly contribute below 100 Hz. That's a significant consideration here as well. Thus, I just don't know that the 468 would be a satisfying choice for my system.

actually my woofer towers cross over at 37hz. the adjustment range is 25hz-45hz. my (8) woofers in my main passive towers go from 25hz to 250hz. i've seen peaks at 300 watts+ with drum whacks or horn blasts from RTR tape. i play big music without limits.

but i think that Fremer's or Jacob's rooms and speakers are better evidence of what you would experience. or maybe DCC's who had them a week ago.

 

[adyc]

I discussed this with Hervé Delétraz when he was at my house for a home demo of the 468 about ten days ago. He indicated, that compared to the CH amp meters, the values showing on the 468 would be more than half of the ones showing on a CH amp. My loudspeakers are 92dB efficient. We listened at quite realistic levels and the max peak I saw was 275 W.

The difference maybe CH showing instantaneous power and Dartzeel showing average power.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Heilbrunn's system also has separate amplified sub towers.

If I am understanding you, then this is not correct. The Wilson WAMM is full range. The Master Subsonics are not separate sub towers which fill in the lower frequencies for non-full-range main speakers a la Evolution Acoustics MM7 or Gryphon Kodo or Genesis Technologies Prime.

 

[Ron Resnick]

And then there is the dealer network here in the states (there basically isn't one)

I think this is at least a partial mischaracterization.

I don't know myself the nature of the darTZeel sales network but I know personally several darTZeel owners who love the products. So whatever the sales method is it appears to work well and to achieve happy and long-term customer relationships.

 

[microstrip]

(...) And regarding the bass of the CH, believe me, i don't understand it either!

IMHO, a couple of measurements taken in the room and some objective data on the amplifiers would explain it all ...

 

[microstrip]

Mark
I don't think that's a reasonable expectation. In my view there is no fault of the dealer here at all. How could it be? To begin, the dealer I bought the amps from didn't sell me the Alexx V. How the heck is he supposed to know what that combo sounds like? Conversely, the dealer who sold me the speakers doesn't carry CH so unless he reads tea leaves or heard the combo anywhere, he is faultless as well. In fact, when I ordered the M10's back in February there were none in the US at all! Perhaps I should have sought the advice of a medium but all I had at my disposal was reputational input based on a few highly regarded reviews about CH amps and positive results from some owners I respect. In other words, the burden and onus was completely on me, nobody else. I thought the combo would work. It didn't. What I thank my lucky stars for is working with a dealer, Elliot G, who told me up front if I didn't love them, he would buy them back. And that's exactly what Elliot did. How rare is that? That sure doesn't happen when you buy something on Audiogon or ebay!

BTW, the amps and speakers do not top out at 240K. The amps are about 200K and the speakers are 135K. There's a term for that. It's called a very expensive mistake. (Actually, half a mistake- the speakers knock me out with the Parasound JC1+, perhaps there's more greatness to come...). Nobody else that had anything to do with this is the idiot here, except me. And, by the way, it was a risk I fully accepted before buying the amps sight unseen (or unheard). Caveat emptor.
Marty

Marty,

I can't understand how you say it is a risk you fully accepted if you had a dealer that would take them back in case you did not like them.

Buying new from dealers has some real advantages - my Vivaldi and the XLF's were bought in such conditions because I also wanted this type of assurance.

And surely we do not expect such courtesy when buying used or at high discounts - I was not expecting Mike Lavigne to take the Lamm ML3's back from me just because I did not love them!

 

[andromedaaudio]

The bass control on the CAT JL7s is really, really good. Better than some solid state amps (e.g. Pass XA165.5).

But when I got the CH M1.1s it was clearly superior in that regard.

This is what boggles me , the text below is taken from the CH site regarding the M10 s ??


But at the other end of the scale, headroom is a major limitation on amplifier performance. Dynamic swings can test even the M1.1’s generous 200 W/Ch rated output, so for the M10 we didn’t just increase that by 50%, we doubled the power supply capacity too, creating an output stage with massive musical potential.


Coming back to Ians Magico Mpros as compared to martys Alexx
Ian your speaker is stated by Magico at 91 db .
They sometimes are a bit optimistic ,so yours may be actually 89- 90 db for example .
Looking at several Magico designs ( i couldnt find a third party measurement for the M pros ) their impedance doesnt drop below 2 ohms for their speakers ..
They are mostly in the 2-3 ohm range even for the Q 5 .
If you have no problems in the bass region ( with 0 % feedback ) then i dont understand marty s bass problem wit his 92 db / 2 Ohm minimum impedance speaker ( as stated by wilson).
Stereophile came to a 91 db sensitivity 2 ohms minimum impedance when JA measured the Alexx V

So its either you or marty have a completely different perception as what bass ought to be or the 1/ 2 ohm deeper impedance dip is what kills the CH amp
( even though its double rated as compared to the M 1.1)

Another possibilty is that the M pro s dont even touch the lower regions we are talking about .
Closed M pros as compared to the Wilsons bass reflex

 

[christoph]

I discussed this with Hervé Delétraz when he was at my house for a home demo of the 468 about ten days ago. He indicated, that compared to the CH amp meters, the values showing on the 468 would be more than half of the ones showing on a CH amp. My loudspeakers are 92dB efficient. We listened at quite realistic levels and the max peak I saw was 275 W.

But then again, your room is rather a phone booth than a gymnasium if I interpret the pics correctly

 

[dcc]

But then again, your room is rather a phone booth than a gymnasium if I interpret the pics correctly

120 cubic meter + a large opening to the dining room. Not a gymnasium indeed but not a phone booth