A New Wave of Class D Integrated Amplifiers

Cellcbern

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The Knife

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FYI - Here's a new review (link below) of the SU-R1000 which compares it with the Rotel Michi X5 and Yamaha A-S3200.

Thanks! Good review. Delighted to see that the reviewer´s speakers of choice is the ML ESL 9. As I run the ESL 11, I believe I hear what he hears. I picked up several of the tracks mentioned in the review. One really good thing with reading reviews is coming across good pieces of music.

"The Yamaha sounded almost as precise, but it was able to widen the soundstage a bit more so that it was just outside the speakers at times."

This is very interesting. The widest sound stage I ever have heard is with this piece of equipment:


My local dealer is the Swedish agent for this thing created at the Princeton university. Unfortunately for any of us, until we each get one of these, we can only dream of realistic sound reproduction. One happy day maybe... I really hope this technique will waterfall its way down to more affordable machines.
 
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Kingrex

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You know what did surprise me yesterday. The Dartzeel 468 sounds more like my tubes setup than my Dartzeel 108 sounds like the 468. The 468 is just an amazing piece of equipment.

I have a friend who had 2 very well known class D amps and he prefers his Dartzeel 108M2. But come on. They are pretty close. And the class D are $8k or so new. The used Dartzeel 108M2 is $19k. Mine is a model 1

Cellcbern, my 845 make me sit up and listen into the music. I'm aware of the details and assesing how close to live does it sound. My Dartzeel makes me forget about the electronics and I'm more calmly taken away by the music. Very different reactions to music playback.
 

The Knife

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For anyone curious on the new Technics R1000. Another stellar review.
 

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Loheswaran

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For anyone curious on the new Technics R1000. Another stellar review.
Hi Knife

What amps have you had in your system before the Technics.

I am very piqued by this - particularly the phono section.

My current chain is Vendetta SCP2a or Whest 0.2 phono stage - Lavardin IT integrated. I prefer an integrated simply because I have a small room in a nearfield set up. I have multiple turntables, and therefore the Technics connectivity interests me too.

The thing is the Lavardin IT is an exceptional amp and the only things I've heard better it tend to be silly money - CONSTELLATION - BURMESTER - FM ACOUSTICS - and I've heard them with big speakers. In my set up i don't have such large speakers.

I cannot recall a product that has polarised people as much as this amp - there's theory and ideological venom against it with people saying reviewers are being disingenuous - the same reviewers that have previously been seen as reliable when complementing their own equipment.

I appreciate that Tube lovers speak about emotional connection, to me there's only been a couple of tube amps I have ever been impressed with and truth be told they were top of the line VTL's, Tron and Audio Note. I find many are mushy - particularly Zanden and have little bass grip precision and speed. It's a simple fact that they all suffer microphony - and tube boots are just a proverbial plaster. Sorry if i have offended anyone, but I am entitled to my opinion. I say in advance that I recall speaking to a good reviewer (MArtin Colloms) and when describing my set up he remarked that I am very 'timing sensitive' - others have different sensitivities which in turn usually reflects in the systems they have. It may be why i am not a huge tube fan - I am happy to be disproved I hasten to add ;)

Not just that but we have to face facts that lower power consumption to some like me (tree hugger of sorts) leads to lower environmental impact.
 

alfa100

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Aug 29, 2014
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Hi Knife

What amps have you had in your system before the Technics.

I am very piqued by this - particularly the phono section.

My current chain is Vendetta SCP2a or Whest 0.2 phono stage - Lavardin IT integrated. I prefer an integrated simply because I have a small room in a nearfield set up. I have multiple turntables, and therefore the Technics connectivity interests me too.

The thing is the Lavardin IT is an exceptional amp and the only things I've heard better it tend to be silly money - CONSTELLATION - BURMESTER - FM ACOUSTICS - and I've heard them with big speakers. In my set up i don't have such large speakers.

I cannot recall a product that has polarised people as much as this amp - there's theory and ideological venom against it with people saying reviewers are being disingenuous - the same reviewers that have previously been seen as reliable when complementing their own equipment.

I appreciate that Tube lovers speak about emotional connection, to me there's only been a couple of tube amps I have ever been impressed with and truth be told they were top of the line VTL's, Tron and Audio Note. I find many are mushy - particularly Zanden and have little bass grip precision and speed. It's a simple fact that they all suffer microphony - and tube boots are just a proverbial plaster. Sorry if i have offended anyone, but I am entitled to my opinion. I say in advance that I recall speaking to a good reviewer (MArtin Colloms) and when describing my set up he remarked that I am very 'timing sensitive' - others have different sensitivities which in turn usually reflects in the systems they have. It may be why i am not a huge tube fan - I am happy to be disproved I hasten to add ;)

Not just that but we have to face facts that lower power consumption to some like me (tree hugger of sorts) leads to lower environmental impact.
The Lavardin IT is an exceptional amp. I still miss mine. Best with all Lavardin cable. Was a little shy in the bass but simply pure. I now run Pass Labs. Interesting topic ; I’m watching Class D with great but so far haven’t liked what I’ve heard. Then again there are some Uber expensive Class D which I’m told sound very good.
 
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Loheswaran

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Dec 19, 2014
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The Lavardin IT is an exceptional amp. I still miss mine. Was a little shy in the bass but simply pure. I now run Pass Labs. Interesting topic ; I’m watching Class D with great but so far haven’t liked what I’ve heard. Then again there are some Uber expensive Class D which I’m told sound very
I see you have large Wilson Sasha speakers! they must love the power of ur Pass Labs - i heard them powered by some big Krells and they weree mighty impressive!

i used my IT with Yamaha NS1000M's - a match made in heaven - unfortunately my little hifi room was overpowered and hence my purchase of Roksan Darius S1. The IT has no problem with bass in those set ups - but I guess it must run out of puff for big speakers like your Wilsons.

I have pondered Vitus (a tad cold) Dartzeel (an odd golden sheen) ASR and Neodio (not heard them yet), DNM (even less power :eek:. The problem is that the Lavardin IT is like the Lotus Elise of amplifiers - its almost perfect - just not much of it :)
 

Birdwatcher

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May 29, 2018
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How work the Wilson speakers like Sasha DAW with Class D power, like the plenty of Watt from a Jeff Rowland Daemon with Pascal Class D units? Is it comparable to traditional Class A or Class AB „plenty of watt“?
 

alfa100

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Aug 29, 2014
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I tried Devialet with my Sasha. Sounded smooth but that’s it. I prefer Pass Labs Class A. Class A adds gravitas and a 3 dimensional image. Just feels and sounds natural.
 
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The Knife

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Nov 13, 2020
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Hi Knife

What amps have you had in your system before the Technics.

I am very piqued by this - particularly the phono section.

My current chain is Vendetta SCP2a or Whest 0.2 phono stage - Lavardin IT integrated. I prefer an integrated simply because I have a small room in a nearfield set up. I have multiple turntables, and therefore the Technics connectivity interests me too.

The thing is the Lavardin IT is an exceptional amp and the only things I've heard better it tend to be silly money - CONSTELLATION - BURMESTER - FM ACOUSTICS - and I've heard them with big speakers. In my set up i don't have such large speakers.

I cannot recall a product that has polarised people as much as this amp - there's theory and ideological venom against it with people saying reviewers are being disingenuous - the same reviewers that have previously been seen as reliable when complementing their own equipment.

I appreciate that Tube lovers speak about emotional connection, to me there's only been a couple of tube amps I have ever been impressed with and truth be told they were top of the line VTL's, Tron and Audio Note. I find many are mushy - particularly Zanden and have little bass grip precision and speed. It's a simple fact that they all suffer microphony - and tube boots are just a proverbial plaster. Sorry if i have offended anyone, but I am entitled to my opinion. I say in advance that I recall speaking to a good reviewer (MArtin Colloms) and when describing my set up he remarked that I am very 'timing sensitive' - others have different sensitivities which in turn usually reflects in the systems they have. It may be why i am not a huge tube fan - I am happy to be disproved I hasten to add ;)

Not just that but we have to face facts that lower power consumption to some like me (tree hugger of sorts) leads to lower environmental impact.
Hi Loheswaran,

Nothing extraordinary.

I have owned a couple of different McIntosh and Accuphase amps in different configurations.

The Technics delivers (for what it is) in my opinion extraordinary results. One must realize is has a lot of under it´s hood and extra so in regards to Records combability.

However, I rather quickly after purchasing the Technics continued to endeavor the forefront within digital processing (in my humble opinion) and ended up with a Bacch SP-Adio, which for me is a leap rather then a step in Home Music reproduction. As the Bacch SP-adio has an inbuilt Pre-amp and DAC that I wanted to utilize, I only needed a Power amp. There was a Bryston on the shelf that suited my needs, hence it replaced the Technics.

As good as the Technics is it fall short in all aspects in comparison to my current combo.

But if one is looking for a quality integrated, I give it my best recommendation!
 

Loheswaran

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Dec 19, 2014
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Hi Loheswaran,

Nothing extraordinary.

I have owned a couple of different McIntosh and Accuphase amps in different configurations.

The Technics delivers (for what it is) in my opinion extraordinary results. One must realize is has a lot of under it´s hood and extra so in regards to Records combability.

However, I rather quickly after purchasing the Technics continued to endeavor the forefront within digital processing (in my humble opinion) and ended up with a Bacch SP-Adio, which for me is a leap rather then a step in Home Music reproduction. As the Bacch SP-adio has an inbuilt Pre-amp and DAC that I wanted to utilize, I only needed a Power amp. There was a Bryston on the shelf that suited my needs, hence it replaced the Technics.

As good as the Technics is it fall short in all aspects in comparison to my current combo.

But if one is looking for a quality integrated, I give it my best recommendation!
Hi Knife

Thanks for telling me about that product you now have and ur past amps. Sadly I don't have £35K for pre-amp and dac alone ;)

All said it's always good to see what is around the corner so to speak.

Out of interest did you ever hear Dynavector super stereo. I only heard it the once and was mightily impressed - the problem was you needed a second pair of speakers that fired back at the stereo pair and that they had to fire back at a higher volume (please don't quote me).

Had I never bought any music and was to start again i very much doubt I would by vinyl. I love it and it is the most satisfying to my ears but it's a pain in the neck. My good friend that sold me the Lavardin IT got into room correction using Accourate and Tact digital amps and he has never looked back.

I personally find the Devialets very smooth and respectable but quite cerebral. I heard a Rowland integrated and that was very good - i didn't think it either lacking in soul or body.

I am going to audition thee Technics and then take it from there...
 

The Knife

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Nov 13, 2020
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Hi Loheswaran,

No, I have not come across the Dynavector Super Stereo. What is it?

Regarding Bacch, I know it is a lot of money. Most refined machines within Hifi are, regardless if it is a record player, a high end amplifier or a DAC.

Slippery slope huh :). But it is a delight to build over time.

Once you get familiar to what a Bacch does, you will find it hard to live without it; e.g. Cross Talk Elimination ;-).

I like going to Clubs. Techno Clubs, Berlin style, and the Bacch is the equipment so far that has taken "that club feeling" of
being "in the music" (rather then in front of it) closest, to my absolute reference; the Club. Although the product is fairly new, there should come out 2nd hand machines in the market (given that owners want to part with them) from now and then, so it does not need to be that bloody.

The Technics is definitely worth an audition. With an inbuilt room correction and signal processing for record players and cartridges it comes damn close to my current system, which is a good grade, given the price difference. It just could not make the music "Halo like", as it lacks technic for that. Anyway. Auditing is the only way to find out. There are good contenders out there, you mentioned Devialet. They have many fans!
 

Loheswaran

Well-Known Member
Dec 19, 2014
437
101
273
Hi Loheswaran,

No, I have not come across the Dynavector Super Stereo. What is it?

Regarding Bacch, I know it is a lot of money. Most refined machines within Hifi are, regardless if it is a record player, a high end amplifier or a DAC.

Slippery slope huh :). But it is a delight to build over time.

Once you get familiar to what a Bacch does, you will find it hard to live without it; e.g. Cross Talk Elimination ;-).

I like going to Clubs. Techno Clubs, Berlin style, and the Bacch is the equipment so far that has taken "that club feeling" of
being "in the music" (rather then in front of it) closest, to my absolute reference; the Club. Although the product is fairly new, there should come out 2nd hand machines in the market (given that owners want to part with them) from now and then, so it does not need to be that bloody.

The Technics is definitely worth an audition. With an inbuilt room correction and signal processing for record players and cartridges it comes damn close to my current system, which is a good grade, given the price difference. It just could not make the music "Halo like", as it lacks technic for that. Anyway. Auditing is the only way to find out. There are good contenders out there, you mentioned Devialet. They have many fans!
Did you have problems with the Technics and electrostatics?
I am puzzled because Noel Keywood from HiFi World slated the amp as he had problems with electrostatics as the Technics shut off. He said hee saw nothing in the cartridge optimiser... That said I know HiFi World didn't set up a Trans Fi arm properly and gave it a middling review due to that...

Out of interest how do you feel about the body of sound in the technics? the McIntosh are pretty muscular as are Accuphase (albeit very smooth)
 

The Knife

Well-Known Member
Nov 13, 2020
141
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115
Stockholm, Sweden
Did you have problems with the Technics and electrostatics?
I am puzzled because Noel Keywood from HiFi World slated the amp as he had problems with electrostatics as the Technics shut off. He said hee saw nothing in the cartridge optimiser... That said I know HiFi World didn't set up a Trans Fi arm properly and gave it a middling review due to that...

Out of interest how do you feel about the body of sound in the technics? the McIntosh are pretty muscular as are Accuphase (albeit very smooth)
Technics did shut down twice. When playing on like 75% of maximum. This is so loud it is not enjoyable for anyone. But yes. It couldnt handle the loads. The sound is refined. Liquid. Class A like but with super control over bas and details. It sound amazing to 60% of max volume which is more then my preference. I listen normally at 40 max 50 %. Now the Bryston is Muscular. Big body. Engaging sound. It is made with North american sound in mind. All the great music, all the greatest bands are from North America, in my opinion. Bryston know how to Cherish it :)
 
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CKKeung

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AMR / iFi audio

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CKKeung

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They seem to be very competitive with Purifi Audio. It's a pretty similar topology, as both were designed by B. Putzeys. What are you guys thinking about those two brands?
No direct comparison report is available yet.
But I will put my bet on Purifi.
;)
 

AMR / iFi audio

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ifi-audio.com
No direct comparison report is available yet.
But I will put my bet on Purifi.
;)
I have seen an interview with B. Putzeys in which he stated that it's not important what is in the amplifier, but rather what isn't there in terms of distortion. His conclusion is that classic solid-state amplifiers have some type of distortion that tube amps don't have, which is why they are still very popular. I'm wondering if new Hypex amps have also tackled that issue.
 

KyoichiOda

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Hello everyone.

I listened the new Ause Audio's 1ET7040SA power aplifier.
I was really surprised, thought the other new wave of class D has come.

The sound should be called "the high-fidelity", I have not known real high-fidelity
in many auditons and shows I have ever had.
It sounds not only high resolution and tonality, but also powerful and very accurate and precise.
It drives Estelons exactly, thghtly "start - stop" the drivers.

I have listened hundreds power amplifier, none sounded like this.
This is really new wave, new era of amlifier, not only class D.

Their last NC500 amplifier suonds better than any other NC500.
Mr Tsukioks, the designer has developped class D module by himself.
Probably this is the reason for that.

It will be launched in a few months, I strongly recommend.
If you want an audition, I am happy to help you.

IMG_20220710_140142.jpg
(the amplifier at the top)
 
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