As for my sub being audible to you, this may be true in some cases, Peter, but it is not true in general. While you have often been critical, you have on several occasions also mentioned that you thought the sub integration in my system was very good. Please don't engage in revisionist history only because lately you have become again very sensitive to the topic.
Yes.
That is a problematic assertion. How can anyone claim to want to hear any given recording how the engineer intended it to sound if they set a basic level of subwoofer volume, even if they intend to keep it fixed, according to their taste or what they personally perceive to be right? If you really think about it, the argument falls apart easily. And in your case where you don't use a subwoofer (and I agree, in your particular acoustic situation a sub appears to be problematic), I don't think any recording engineer intended there not to be low bass.
This is not correct. You can have seamless integration at different chosen levels of bass balance, so integration and end user control over the frequency balance of playback are not at odds.
Hi Al,
My comment above about your sub being audible to me is in the present tense. Yes, I have commented about the good integration in the past, but lately, I have been more aware of its presence. Perhaps we just have a slightly different view on what sub level sounds most integrated. That is fine.
Over time, my listening skills have changed. I don't know if they have improved or worsened, but I do know that I now listen for different things then I did just a year or two ago. I learn more, my tastes change, I notice different things, so what I now think may well be different from what I used to think. I agree with you that I have remarked on the good integration in the past. You have also made many changes to your system over the past year including new speakers, DAC, Pass B1 buffer/volume control, cables. You have also adjusted your carpet, rotated your tube traps, moved around large absorption panels, all in an effort to shape the sound more to your liking. All of these changes have meant that the sound of your system has not been constant or static over the past year and as I now think about it, my impressions of the degree of your sub integration have changed as well. I'm not trying to revise history, just placing my comments into some kind of context.
Yes, I have become again sensitive to the topic of sub integration because you strongly suggested that I try once more to integrate a sub in my system. We tried it with your REL sub, and you heard the result. I have also paid particular attention to MadFloyd's sub integration with his superb, full range Magico MPro speakers, speakers that are considerably different from your smaller stand mounted two ways. I heard that sub as well, and we turned it off after a while. I don't know if he is now using it or not.
Integrating subs can be a very complicated process. And I don't know much about it, so I will defer to those on this thread who seem to know more about the subject: David, RogerD, Marty, DaveyF, etc. Their comments seem to more closely reflect my very limited experiences, but as I wrote before, I welcome your approach to changing your sub volume level and altering your sound according to your tastes. That is just fine and it can sound incredible as it did with Green Day.
Regarding the engineer's intentions, I see your point. All we have to experience the engineer's intention is the recording itself, unless we read or hear him/her indicate otherwise. A limited frequency system like mine will never truly reproduce the recording as you correctly state, but, I would rather miss some bass extension than add something which makes the experience less pleasant, clear, or enjoyable. Again, we can all have different opinions about this and choose our own approaches.
Regarding integration and user control of the frequency response of a system, I think a good set of ears or measurements will answer whether or not these issues are at odds. The user must have some control if he is to successfully integrate the system in the first place. But once it is integrated well, as it was in that dealer demo of the Magico S7 and Ssub, I think it is up to the user to decide if he wants to adjust it further. I don't think that dealer adjusted it for different songs once it was set originally. I suppose one could adjust the main speaker positioning for different songs to alter the tonal balance too if he were so inclined. It does seem to be a very individual hobby where one's personal preferences are what should matter most.