Power delivery from panel to component

microstrip

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Really? Because when H and L flank it, it suppresses the ground field. It isn't perfect because the inductance is mediocre, but not everyone can afford $50/ft on top of tearing up all their walls.

Unfortunately I do not have the article with all the measurements with me. But for minimal magnetically induced noise we should have a a twisted L-N pair with a ground wire not too close. Twisting the three wires, as some people do, is not desirable.

While I look for the complete paper please see: http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=19656 . I quote from it:

"To minimize induction of noise into the ground wire, there are two strategies: 1. Because, at any instant in time they carry the same current in opposite directions, put these two wires as close to each other as possible so their magnetic fields neutralize/cancel each other. Tight twisting is the most practical way to do this; and 2. Put the “victim” ground wire as far away as possible from the current-carrying pair. Because the magnetic fields are very intense close to this pair, the closer the ground wire gets to them, the more critical its exact positioning becomes"
 

microstrip

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Sorry, my post was directed at post #14 about the rule being a mistake.

I agree that running the SG between the H & N is a good thing. It's something that Bill Whitlock had been suggesting for a long time, but he had to write an AES paper before I could figure it out.

It is not a mistake from the noise point of view, but violates the NEC - see slides 34 and 35 of Bill Whitlok presentation " An Overview of Audio System Grounding and Interfacing".
 

Folsom

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Unfortunately I do not have the article with all the measurements with me. But for minimal magnetically induced noise we should have a a twisted L-N pair with a ground wire not too close. Twisting the three wires, as some people do, is not desirable.

While I look for the complete paper please see: http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=19656 . I quote from it:

"To minimize induction of noise into the ground wire, there are two strategies: 1. Because, at any instant in time they carry the same current in opposite directions, put these two wires as close to each other as possible so their magnetic fields neutralize/cancel each other. Tight twisting is the most practical way to do this; and 2. Put the “victim” ground wire as far away as possible from the current-carrying pair. Because the magnetic fields are very intense close to this pair, the closer the ground wire gets to them, the more critical its exact positioning becomes"

But it's a catch 22 when the ground is out dangling on it's own, it becomes susceptible to being an antenna for other things.
 

Speedskater

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It is not a mistake from the noise point of view, but violates the NEC - see slides 34 and 35 of Bill Whitlok presentation " An Overview of Audio System Grounding and Interfacing".
Now I have totally lost track of what you are trying to say.

Those two slides reference back to the Bill Whitlock paper:

"Ground Loops: The Rest of the Story"
Bill Whitlock, AES Fellow and Jamie Fox, P.E.

this link may not work for everyone.

http://www.jensen-transformers.com/...est-of-Story-Whitlock-Fox-Generic-Version.pdf
 

Speedskater

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ALRIGHT. You get really caught up in providing information and start to "speak-over" people without providing context to reference of whom or what you're speaking to. They appear like general statements that way as well, which makes it harder to understand. I appreciate your contributions but don't be a robot plz.
My typing is poor and my spelling is worse, so I try to keep my responses as short as possible.
 

microstrip

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microstrip

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The Whitlock slides and papers are understandable, but I still don't get your point in post #14?

Because point 2. - "Put the “victim” ground wire as far away as possible from the current-carrying pair" is not compatible with your advice of post #13. Romex is not adequate for audio rooms.
 

gshelley

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Jan 10, 2011
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Hi Peter,
im curious, did you do further experiments on your power setup?

I am prepping to build a new room and am considering power setup options. I have some previous experience where I ran dedicated lines (10awg, solid core, twisted pair, isolated ground, steel conduit) in my last room. Found isolated grounding did not impact noise or sonics.
 

gshelley

Member Sponsor
Jan 10, 2011
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Well that’s a shame. i know you want to sort these questions out within your setup.

i have a few months and intend to keep exploring this area. Will be great to hear your results when you do find an electrician.
 
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