Introducing Olympus & Olympus I/O - A new perspective on modern music playback

[Whbgarrett]

At the risk of kicking a hornet's nest here, I will note that it appears that Taiko may be on a competitive collision course with DAC manufacturers, notwithstanding the talk of cooperation between Taiko and the manufacturers of some of the DACs favored by WBF participants. There is already the suggestion that the analogue output module in the initial version of the Olympus may well exceed the performance obtained when using an external DAC without an XDMI connection. Even if some of these DAC manufactures develop an XDMI interface with the Olympus, it is not too difficult to imagine that there could be a lot of demand for a one box (two with the i/o) uber solution that includes an all out assault on the DAC and analogue stages, largely eliminating the need for a third party external DAC, at least for some material portion of the market.

 

[Steve Williams]

At the risk of kicking a hornet's nest here, I will note that it appears that Taiko may be on a competitive collision course with DAC manufacturers, notwithstanding the talk of cooperation between Taiko and the manufacturers of some of the DACs favored by WBF participants. There is already the suggestion that the analogue output module in the initial version of the Olympus may well exceed the performance obtained when using an external DAC without an XDMI connection. Even if some of these DAC manufactures develop an XDMI interface with the Olympus, it is not too difficult to imagine that there could be a lot of demand for a one box (two with the i/o) uber solution that includes an all out assault on the DAC and analogue stages, largely eliminating the need for a third party external DAC, at least for some material portion of the market.

The way I look at it is that one way or another this is going to happen. I don’t think Emile wants to usurp the first right of refusal from DAC mfrs but I sense his confidence that XDMI could just really become the next industry standard

 

[DW101]

I'm looking forward to trying it out, I've realised that (with RCA to XLR adapters) I'll be able to do a not quite apples to apples a/b test vs Select Dac using the analog in to MSBs pre-amp section.

 

[microstrip]

At the risk of kicking a hornet's nest here, I will note that it appears that Taiko may be on a competitive collision course with DAC manufacturers, notwithstanding the talk of cooperation between Taiko and the manufacturers of some of the DACs favored by WBF participants. There is already the suggestion that the analogue output module in the initial version of the Olympus may well exceed the performance obtained when using an external DAC without an XDMI connection. Even if some of these DAC manufactures develop an XDMI interface with the Olympus, it is not too difficult to imagine that there could be a lot of demand for a one box (two with the i/o) uber solution that includes an all out assault on the DAC and analogue stages, largely eliminating the need for a third party external DAC, at least for some material portion of the market.

I share your concerns. The high-end is an hobby ruled by individual preference and a competitive free market. There are no absolutes in the high-end.

The way I look at it is that one way or another this is going to happen. I don’t think Emile wants to usurp the first right of refusal from DAC mfrs but I sense his confidence that XDMI could just really become the next industry standard

These would be good news. But in order to become a successful industry standard Taiko Audio must release the full specifications of XDMI. But we are still just speculating about XDMI, surely animated by the excellent sound quality of the current Extreme server.

 

[tomas329]

At the risk of kicking a hornet's nest here, I will note that it appears that Taiko may be on a competitive collision course with DAC manufacturers, notwithstanding the talk of cooperation between Taiko and the manufacturers of some of the DACs favored by WBF participants. There is already the suggestion that the analogue output module in the initial version of the Olympus may well exceed the performance obtained when using an external DAC without an XDMI connection. Even if some of these DAC manufactures develop an XDMI interface with the Olympus, it is not too difficult to imagine that there could be a lot of demand for a one box (two with the i/o) uber solution that includes an all out assault on the DAC and analogue stages, largely eliminating the need for a third party external DAC, at least for some material portion of the market.

Is there a reason they can't both coexist for quite some time? The way I'm looking at it, the optimal solution is still likely to be an external dac manufacturer who incorporates XDMI natively. This is because of the years of experience they have exclusively making DACs using their "custom" chips vs the off the shelf rohm in the taiko. Also i would think having the dac removed from all the processing gives better shielding, similar to the new digital director from MSB. I do think once 1 or 2 manufacturers adopt xdmi they will all come so as not to lose a competitive edge but at the pace of Taiko's innovation a custom dac chip might indeed be next on their hit list. Perhaps someone with more knowledge than me in this field can opine?

 

[m-bolt]

When upgrading to the Olympus server XDMI, do the newer USB and network cards get returned for credit? I know storage doesn’t. If we also wanted USB to test, do we then keep the USB card?

 

[Whbgarrett]

Is there a reason they can't both coexist for quite some time? The way I'm looking at it, the optimal solution is still likely to be an external dac manufacturer who incorporates XDMI natively. This is because of the years of experience they have exclusively making DACs using their "custom" chips vs the off the shelf rohm in the taiko. Also i would think having the dac removed from all the processing gives better shielding, similar to the new digital director from MSB. I do think once 1 or 2 manufacturers adopt xdmi they will all come so as not to lose a competitive edge but at the pace of Taiko's innovation a custom dac chip might indeed be next on their hit list. Perhaps someone with more knowledge than me in this field opine?

I did not mean to imply that the DAC manufactures would be put out of business over night. Rather, I was only observing that Taiko, which has not heretofore been in the DAC space, was now going to be in it, and with that expansion of their product foot print, be competing with the DAC manufactures. I am not concerned about this turn of events. Indeed, given the pace of innovation from Taiko this strikes me as a very positive development. Competition is good.

 

[seatrope]

@Taiko Audio - what is the likelihood of having a XDMI XLR balanced analog output stage ready near/around Olympus launch?

I think many of us have that question...

 

[Steve Williams]

I do think once 1 or 2 manufacturers adopt xdmi they will all come so as not to lose a competitive edge but at the pace of Taiko's innovation a custom dac chip might indeed be next on their hit list.

im sure that is Emile’s desire Hence his great idea to introduce the product to early adopters whom almost certainly will be making positive comments about what they hear. To me its smart marketing that is carried by word of mouth and then the snowball begins to rapidly grow as it moves down the mountain.

For all of us this is totally new and hence the constant questions. I would have to say that after 3 years of R and D plus $$$ invested and with XDMI being licensed I think Emile is smiling ear to ear waiting for the top to come off this new interface
@microstrip I say “be patient little grasshopper”

im feeling that XDMI coming out via AES/EBU to the Horizon is going to give us a sense of XDMI and I also feel confident that a full native XDMI is going to happen. Might not be overnight but I’m betting that directed Horizon at least I’m feeling confident full native XDMI will surface. I also believe that a fair comparison between the internal DAC vs our external DACs cannot happen until the external DAC has full native XDMI

 

[microstrip]

@microstrip I say “be patient little grasshopper”

Steve,
It sees to me you confuse asking the relevant technical and critical questions on XDMI with lack of patience. I feel that the points I referred are relevant and worth answers.

im feeling that XDMI coming out via AES/EBU to the Horizon is going to give us a sense of XDMI and I also feel confident that a full native XDMI is going to happen. Might not be overnight but I’m betting that directed Horizon at least I’m feeling confident full native XDMI will surface. I also believe that a fair comparison between the internal DAC vs our external DACs cannot happen until the external DAC has full native XDMI

Your feelings are just centered around the Horizon - I must say my horizons are broader.

 

[Taiko Audio]

@Taiko Audio - what is the likelihood of having a XDMI XLR balanced analog output stage ready near/around Olympus launch?

I think many of us have that question...

Hi @seatrope ,

We will only have the 2 announced modules available.

I understand it may look trivial to design other output options, but for more advanced designs, where you cannot just solder together a prototype with some wire and parts, there’s a process you go through, looking like this:

1) Design the Architecture
2) Parts selection
3) Circuit design
4) Build library parts
5) PCB Layout
6) Signal & Power Integrity analysis
7) Adjustments
8) Final layout & verification
9) Order parts and circuitboards for prototypes
10) PCB assembly
11) Bring up, measurements, adjust as needed
12) Test phase, technical performance and listening tests
13) Modify prototype circuitboards
14) Layout final product
15) Another Signal & Power Integrity analysis run
16) Order final PCBs and parts
17) PCB Assembly
18) Final measurements, listening tests
19) Verification stage
20) Order production batch in quantity

All these steps can be short or long, depending on complexity, but from start design to having production quantity amounts in 3 months is just impossible…

 

[seatrope]

Hi @seatrope ,

We will only have the 2 announced modules available.

I understand it may look trivial to design other output options, but for more advanced designs, where you cannot just solder together a prototype with some wire and parts, there’s a process you go through, looking like this:

1) Design the Architecture
2) Parts selection
3) Circuit design
4) Build library parts
5) PCB Layout
6) Signal & Power Integrity analysis
7) Adjustments
8) Final layout & verification
9) Order parts and circuitboards for prototypes
10) PCB assembly
11) Bring up, measurements, adjust as needed
12) Test phase, technical performance and listening tests
13) Modify prototype circuitboards
14) Layout final product
15) Another Signal & Power Integrity analysis run
16) Order final PCBs and parts
17) PCB Assembly
18) Final measurements, listening tests
19) Verification stage
20) Order production batch in quantity

All these steps can be short or long, depending on complexity, but from start design to having production quantity amounts in 3 months is just impossible…

Understood, just wanted to set my own expectations!

 

[Kris]

The Olympus IO side is different.

View attachment 122473
View attachment 122475

Ok. Thank you for making it clear.
There are additional cards than but they look different. No need for PCI connectors.

I am just not sure how this 2 cards look on the Olympus XDMS as this is one box solution And needs PCI connections.

 

[Opabin]

im sure that is Emile’s desire Hence his great idea to introduce the product to early adopters whom almost certainly will be making positive comments about what they hear. To me its smart marketing that is carried by word of mouth and then the snowball begins to rapidly grow as it moves down the mountain.

For all of us this is totally new and hence the constant questions. I would have to say that after 3 years of R and D plus $$$ invested and with XDMI being licensed I think Emile is smiling ear to ear waiting for the top to come off this new interface
@microstrip I say “be patient little grasshopper”

im feeling that XDMI coming out via AES/EBU to the Horizon is going to give us a sense of XDMI and I also feel confident that a full native XDMI is going to happen. Might not be overnight but I’m betting that directed Horizon at least I’m feeling confident full native XDMI will surface. I also believe that a fair comparison between the internal DAC vs our external DACs cannot happen until the external DAC has full native XDMI

I’m excited by the discussion of XDMI's future but there are so many moving parts and yet unpublished details. Some folks seem focused on XDMI analogue out as their ultimate solution, but I agree with Steve W. that the true test will have to wait until we can assess native XDMI input to some of the leading DACs. I’m curious whether those DAC native XDMI input cards will be battery powered from OLYMPUS or powered by the DAC's own PSU.

As for XDMI becoming an “industry standard,” what does that mean? Hope it happens for native DAC input cards but I’m skeptical it could ever happen for XDMI server output. Licensing fees would have to be very high and how would sales volume ever be enough to even begin to cover Taiko's development costs?

 

[Tuckia]

Understood, just wanted to set my own expectations!

What does this comment mean? Do you have expectations of Taiko performing for you personally? If so, on what grounds?

 

[seatrope]

What does this comment mean? Do you have expectations of Taiko performing for you personally? If so, on what grounds?

setting my own expectations of not having a native XLR analog output available at launch?

 

[Taiko Audio]

Understood, just wanted to set my own expectations!

I would like additional output options to make sense, call it designers pride. Just doubling up the output stage to have balanced out will not improve anything to a meaningful degree. So I would be inclined to put some more effort into this, at the very least double up the DAC chips for example. This would take it beyond just a copy/paste exercise with beefed up power supply rails. Therefor it would take a bit more time, but it wouldn’t be a “nonsense” release then.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Ok. Thank you for making it clear.
There are additional cards than but they look different. No need for PCI connectors.

I am just not sure how this 2 cards look on the Olympus XDMS as this is one box solution And needs PCI connections.

They’re only in the Olympus I/O, not in the Olympus server.

 

[Taiko Audio]

When upgrading to the Olympus server XDMI, do the newer USB and network cards get returned for credit? I know storage doesn’t. If we also wanted USB to test, do we then keep the USB card?

Yes they are returned for credit.

Some examples:

If you purchased the Extreme at its current retail of E 28.000 your trade in credit is E 28.000 as both the upgrade USB and Network cards are included by default.

In the period the Extreme sold for E 24.000, it did not include the upgraded USB and Network cards. So your trade in value is then affected by if you purchased these cards.

No cards: E 24.000
+ USB card: E 25.600
+ USB card and Network card: E 27.200

 

[cmarin]

Hi @seatrope ,

We will only have the 2 announced modules available.

I understand it may look trivial to design other output options, but for more advanced designs, where you cannot just solder together a prototype with some wire and parts, there’s a process you go through, looking like this:

1) Design the Architecture
2) Parts selection
3) Circuit design
4) Build library parts
5) PCB Layout
6) Signal & Power Integrity analysis
7) Adjustments
8) Final layout & verification
9) Order parts and circuitboards for prototypes
10) PCB assembly
11) Bring up, measurements, adjust as needed
12) Test phase, technical performance and listening tests
13) Modify prototype circuitboards
14) Layout final product
15) Another Signal & Power Integrity analysis run
16) Order final PCBs and parts
17) PCB Assembly
18) Final measurements, listening tests
19) Verification stage
20) Order production batch in quantity

All these steps can be short or long, depending on complexity, but from start design to having production quantity amounts in 3 months is just impossible…

Emile,

Thank you for clarifying that an XLR analog output will not be available at launch.

Will just have to “borrow” some high end RCA cables in order to test the XDMI analog option without using adapters.