Which speakers for classical music?

[Superlian]

Is there any preference for speakers to classical music? Is f ex electrostatic speakers like Maggies the ultimate due to perfect coherence and smooth grand piano rendering?


I have a horn system and doesnt play much Rockn Roll when i realy enjoy music. When i have guests to impress then its music with more punch like Yello etc:

Horn system in Norway

Roon with Tidal HiFi & Audiolense Topping 8 channel dac JBL 2384 with JBL 2451 Truextent beryllium Inlow 100 Hz midbass horn with EMS LB7 Acoustic Elegance TD18H+ apollo in 155 liter vented cabinets Hypex Nilai / Anaveiw AMS1000 / Hypex UCD 2K dual mono A lot of RPG acoustical treatments

www.whatsbestforum.com

 

[bonzo75]

Is there any preference for speakers to classical music? Is f ex electrostatic speakers like Maggies the ultimate due to perfect coherence and smooth grand piano rendering?


I have a horn system and doesnt play much Rockn Roll when i realy enjoy music. When i have guests to impress then its music with more punch like Yello etc:

Horn system in Norway

Roon with Tidal HiFi & Audiolense Topping 8 channel dac JBL 2384 with JBL 2451 Truextent beryllium Inlow 100 Hz midbass horn with EMS LB7 Acoustic Elegance TD18H+ apollo in 155 liter vented cabinets Hypex Nilai / Anaveiw AMS1000 / Hypex UCD 2K dual mono A lot of RPG acoustical treatments

www.whatsbestforum.com

You need a better horn system for classical, with SETs. If you also want to play rock you need a dual 15 inch woofers front loaded horn.

At Maggie and Martin Logan hybrid budget both are good, as are Devore orangutans. Logan hybrids not good for rock.

 

[Don Reid]

I have been listening to much classical music ever since I was a kid (late 1950s). I have owned Maggies, electrostatics, any number of box speakers, and none have rendered classical music as realistically and enjoyably as my current DIY horn speakers.

 

[Gotland]

Classical music can mean a number of different things. If you are into full orchestra music or opera you need the best eqipment in my opinion-- full range with good separation -- and probably the most expensive setup. Modern "classical" or art music can also be very demanding.
For chamber music -- compromises will not be that obvious. But generally I dont think a specific technology is better suited for classical music. Well executed electrostatic speakers and well executed dynamic speakers can play fullrange and with good resolution. Its more a question of capacity. Capacity to reproduce similar dynamic of a full orchestra. Capacity to have resolution enough to give to illusion of depth, witdh, placement and separation. And then of course timbre and naturalness of voices and instruments. Classical music is more demanding and sensitive to errors in tone and rythm.
In my experience -- to get a good system for classical or other demanding music -- its more important to start with clean power, anti vibration, aucoustics etc. It will increase the resolution that is needed for classical. And usually we have quite good equipment -- and usually it sounds amazing under the correct circumstances. If it still sounds thin, muddled, unengaging after tweaking -- then I would replace my equipment bit for bit. But I wouldnt lock myself into a specific technology.

 

[sbnx]

Is there any preference for speakers to classical music? Is f ex electrostatic speakers like Maggies the ultimate due to perfect coherence and smooth grand piano rendering?


I have a horn system and doesnt play much Rockn Roll when i realy enjoy music. When i have guests to impress then its music with more punch like Yello etc:

Horn system in Norway

Roon with Tidal HiFi & Audiolense Topping 8 channel dac JBL 2384 with JBL 2451 Truextent beryllium Inlow 100 Hz midbass horn with EMS LB7 Acoustic Elegance TD18H+ apollo in 155 liter vented cabinets Hypex Nilai / Anaveiw AMS1000 / Hypex UCD 2K dual mono A lot of RPG acoustical treatments

www.whatsbestforum.com

Hello, what is it that you don't like about your current speakers? Do I understand that they play rock well but not orchestral music. As someone above mentioned, there are different kinds of orchestral music someone might enjoy. Do you believe your speakers do piano well?

 

[Al M.]

I have been listening to much classical music ever since I was a kid (late 1950s). I have owned Maggies, electrostatics, any number of box speakers, and none have rendered classical music as realistically and enjoyably as my current DIY horn speakers.

What exactly makes them sound more realistic and enjoyable on classical music? Is timbre of instruments more realistic as well, in your view? If so, which instruments, or types of instruments, and in which way?

 

[Ron Resnick]

Classical music can mean a number of different things. If you are into full orchestra music or opera you need the best eqipment in my opinion-- full range with good separation -- and probably the most expensive setup. Modern "classical" or art music can also be very demanding.
For chamber music -- compromises will not be that obvious. But generally I dont think a specific technology is better suited for classical music. Well executed electrostatic speakers and well executed dynamic speakers can play fullrange and with good resolution. Its more a question of capacity. Capacity to reproduce similar dynamic of a full orchestra. Capacity to have resolution enough to give to illusion of depth, witdh, placement and separation. And then of course timbre and naturalness of voices and instruments. Classical music is more demanding and sensitive to errors in tone and rythm.
In my experience -- to get a good system for classical or other demanding music -- its more important to start with clean power, anti vibration, aucoustics etc. It will increase the resolution that is needed for classical. And usually we have quite good equipment -- and usually it sounds amazing under the correct circumstances. If it still sounds thin, muddled, unengaging after tweaking -- then I would replace my equipment bit for bit. But I wouldnt lock myself into a specific technology.

Welcome to WBF, Gotland! Thank you for this thoughtful and insightful first post!

 

[Ron Resnick]

You need a better horn system for classical, with SETs. If you also want to play rock you need a dual 15 inch woofers front loaded horn.

At Maggie and Martin Logan hybrid budget both are good, as are Devore orangutans. Logan hybrids not good for rock.

+1

I think a lot of correct views are packed in here.

Except for Martin-Logan Statements and Neolith, after owning Martin-Logan hybrids for 18 years, I would not choose them specifically for classical or for rock.

I do think that big Magnepans, when properly supplemented with thoughtful and abundant woofage (semi-DIY), can sound amazing on piano. I have learned from a lifetime of hybrids that it is easier to add woofage below 100Hz than it is to supplement with woofage a crossover region between 100Hz and 300Hz.

 

[bonzo75]

Except for Martin-Logan Statements and Neolith, after owning Martin-Logan hybrids for 18 years, I would not choose them specifically for classical or for rock.

MLs are very good for classical. Not the best but excellent. For the speaker budget difficult to beat

 

[Superlian]

Hello, what is it that you don't like about your current speakers? Do I understand that they play rock well but not orchestral music. As someone above mentioned, there are different kinds of orchestral music someone might enjoy. Do you believe your speakers do piano well?

Hi sbnx

No problem with my system. I love it. Plays all kind of music fantastic. Just playing J S Bach Cantatas here now.

I ask because my wife and i will move to another house/appertement within a year or two. Then i have the opportunity to reconsider my audio needs and plan alternative systems. It will probably result in some downscaling.

I play a little piano and learned it as a child so my ears are a litle critical to how a speaker or headphone renders piano.

I am 54 now and music listening has been my favourite hobby since i was around 10. HiFi is not nessacary to treasure music. HiFi is fun from a DIY point of view. But offcoarse capasity, pinpointing, lack of distortion etc brings music listening to another level.

I did some reflections now. I listen to pop and rock when i am doing practial work. Then even a Bose sounddock is ok. When i tune the system with dsp or build speakers with passive crossovers i use all the well known «demo tracks from fairs» to check the sound. When my wife and i play scrabble, drinks red wine and talk it is smooth jazz (Getz, Baker etc, Morrison +++). Then a Bose sounddock is also ok. BUT when i am alone in my listening room i ONLY play Mozart, Chopin, Bach, Handel, Rachmaninov. And it is almost always full orchestra: piano/flute/horn etc consertos, symphonies and some Bach cantatas.

Therefore i understand that i can narrow my design goals in future system to play piano consertos as god as possible with as small fotprint as possible.

 

[gleeds]

The price range, room size and complimentary equipment are important to know in order to get solid recommendations. Are you seeking speakers to replace ones you currently have or buying a completely new system?

 

[Solypsa]

@Superlian what crossover are you using? Sorry if I missed it. Interesting horn system...

 

[sbnx]

Hi sbnx

No problem with my system. I love it. Plays all kind of music fantastic. Just playing J S Bach Cantatas here now.

I ask because my wife and i will move to another house/appertement within a year or two. Then i have the opportunity to reconsider my audio needs and plan alternative systems. It will probably result in some downscaling.

I play a little piano and learned it as a child so my ears are a litle critical to how a speaker or headphone renders piano.

I am 54 now and music listening has been my favourite hobby since i was around 10. HiFi is not nessacary to treasure music. HiFi is fun from a DIY point of view. But offcoarse capasity, pinpointing, lack of distortion etc brings music listening to another level.

I did some reflections now. I listen to pop and rock when i am doing practial work. Then even a Bose sounddock is ok. When i tune the system with dsp or build speakers with passive crossovers i use all the well known «demo tracks from fairs» to check the sound. When my wife and i play scrabble, drinks red wine and talk it is smooth jazz (Getz, Baker etc, Morrison +++). Then a Bose sounddock is also ok. BUT when i am alone in my listening room i ONLY play Mozart, Chopin, Bach, Handel, Rachmaninov. And it is almost always full orchestra: piano/flute/horn etc consertos, symphonies and some Bach cantatas.

Therefore i understand that i can narrow my design goals in future system to play piano consertos as god as possible with as small fotprint as possible.

Thank you for the extra details. This helps to clarify your goals.

IMO, to get orchestral and especially piano to sound right we need a lot of spacing between notes and good note decay. As @Gotland pointed out resonance control, ground noise control and acoustic control is key for this. I don't know what you currently have but might I suggest:
Try some RevOpods for footers. Get a CAD GC1 or GC3 or Nordost Qkore or one of the other ground boxes. Try a few panels to help conrol reflections. Very tight control on speaker position. I would do this stuff before going on the long journey of getting a new pair of speakers.

 

[gleeds]

Superlain. Now I see your current system and better understand your investigation. Since you're a fan of horns, my favorite speakers for classical are either Destination Audio Nika's or one of the WVL field coils models. The modestly sized, reasonably priced WVL Sons are well received by the WBF community and would make an excellent choice for use with low powered valve amplification. Nika's can be considered end game for most mere mortals can do it all - texture, tone and dynamics that are key to engaging, lifelike classical music reproduction.
Good luck!

 

[ecwl]

Hi sbnx

No problem with my system. I love it. Plays all kind of music fantastic. Just playing J S Bach Cantatas here now.

I ask because my wife and i will move to another house/appertement within a year or two. Then i have the opportunity to reconsider my audio needs and plan alternative systems. It will probably result in some downscaling.

To me, I don't think you should mess with success.

Part of the issue is that we don't know how loud you listen to your system and how much you care about the low bass.
If you are to downsize, if the listening volume is not very high, then there probably are a lot of speakers that would sound great once you do your DSP with audiolense. However, most of them probably won't play as low as your current system so you'll have to find subwoofers to compensate for the low (and possibly mid) bass.
But for louder listening volume levels, you probably need bigger speakers and bigger subwoofers that are comparable in size to your current setup.
Moreover, you like the sound you get right now, and it probably is a result of the low-distortion electronics you're using paired with the horn speaker sound. All speakers have some distortions that lead to a certain characteristic that DSP would not completely eliminate. If you are to replace your horn speakers with electrostats or magneplanar or more standard speakers, you might find that you'll miss some of that horn speaker warmth when paired with your current electronics.

Hence, I don't see a good way for you to downsize without potentially making drastic changes to your entire system, not just the speakers. Of course, I might be wrong.

 

[Superlian]

Yes. Never change a winning team!


But if we move i need to have an alternative whit smaller footprint.

I play medium loud. In my current system i get 20 Hz. In a downsized system i can accept 30 Hz.

In a future downscaled compact system i could f ex make 20-70/80 Hz subwoofers with the new Seas driver. Two pcs pr side (pr enclosure):

https://www.seas.no/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=605:launch-xm011-08-l22roy2&catid=41&Itemid=276

 

[Superlian]

@Superlian what crossover are you using? Sorry if I missed it. Interesting horn system...

140 and 900 Hz with Audiolense DSP software (steep phase correct FIR filter)

 

[Kingrex]

I see a listener with a budget of say $50k from what you currently have.

I agree with the comments of proper setup. I would focus on the room. Double drywall, inroom treatments, sound proof glass, good electrical power. Thats $25k.
Accept the scale wont be massive. I believe a high efficiency speaker with the right amp brings a naturalism and air that the low efficiency - super power amps don't. Its just different. I don't think your class D amps bring that sound either. I like a big bottle tube amp for classical playback. Especially when your dealing with an average to smallet size room.
Assess the entire package. Don't get hung up on a speaker. When I inserted the Found Music Blade to my PAP Trio 15 Coax, I was stunned. The guy who makes the amp summed it up saying, I didn't think those speakers had it in them. It comes down to more than just the speaker. It was the right amps, preamps, phono pre, TT etc etc. FWIW my room sucks. My power is excellent.