What’s the world’s best 2 watt amplifier?

[bonzo75]

Congratulations!
I’ve had the EML XLS 300b in my SET amplifiers for about 7 or 8 years. Splendid sounding and utterly reliable and trouble free.with heavy usage. Excellent quality tubes.
Charles

the EML XLS 300b are very different from the 45s. And the EML 45s are quite different from their own globe anniversary 45s. The globe anniversary 45s are just super, probity the best 45s

 

[bonzo75]

Just received a pair of Emission Labs 45 tubes for my Triode Labs monoblocks. Came all the way from Germany. Took a while to get them. They look and sound very nice. Build quality is exceptional.

try to source solid plate EML globe anniversary 45. If you can’t find those, then Cunningham 45

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

Very nice. Great use of a classic chassis. Love the SIT amps. Still wish I had pulled the trigger on a SIT-1 trade. Those VFETs are getting spendy now.

Beau

I have a pair of original SIT-1s for sale
230VAC
PM if interested

 

[SONDEKNZ]

I’ve recently started exploring the fascinating world of extreme low power amplifiers, think under 2-3 watts. No megabuck amplifier that requires a forklift to move (I once owned one of those behemoths, a Krell 750 MCx!). Since my current reference speaker is a pair of Klipsch La Scalas, 200 pound behemoths that look the size of a midsized refrigerator but are 105+ dB efficient, I’ve discovered I can get by with flea sized amplifiers. My current reference is a Triode Labs 45M monoblock SET amplifier. It uses 1 45 tube per channel to produce 2 glorious class A watts per channel. It simply sounds magnificent on my La Scalas. Here’s a pic of them. I’m using Sophia Electric Princess 274B rectifiers with NOS RCA 45s.

Are there better extremely low watt amps I should consider? Does anyone make a 2 watt class A solid state amplifier? Yes, I know Nelson Pass here in California makes his First Watt line. I don’t want 15-20 watts. I want just ONE glorious watt! Extremely high quality but extremely low power. The best components money can buy, but no unnecessary power. Suggestion?

View attachment 99960

The best very low power amp we have heard - owned one for years - was the original TRANSCENDENT SOUND SE-OTL.

A single-ended, 1.5W stereo power amp with no Output Transformers, that just amazed us - up to a certain volume.

Such a sweet amp - and so utterly dynamic in its own power band.

Tubes were long-lasting and quite affordable too!

Trouble is, we couldn't afford the type of loudspeakers that could get it up on the low power, so ended up selling it.

[For context, own / have owned CARY 300SE Signature Monoblocks, FIRST WATT J2, LUXMAN AVANCE Z501, LEBEN CS300F and have played around with QUAD ST20 and others...]

 

[godofwealth]

I have heard of “first watt”… maybe they can be bridged to get a ”second watt” which is in the 2-3 watts range

Actually just bought a used pair of First Watt J-2s. Look forward to trying them. Note even though it says “First Watt“, the J-2s deliver about 25 watts per channel into 8 ohm loads, and surprisingly for a solid state amplifier, only 12-13 watts into 4 ohms loads. They use a single output transistor per channel and are class A, so it runs pretty warm. The distortion characteristics are very SET like, pure second harmonic distortion which our ear finds pleasing. Nelson Pass knows more about solid state amplifiers than anyone on the planet, and unlike more mass market Pass Labs line of products, his First Watt designs are more quirky amplifiers with some character, as he calls them.

Products – www.firstwatt.com

J2 Power Amplifier

The J2 is a stereo power amplifier rated at 25 watts per channel. It has a two-stage circuit that operates in pure single-ended Class A mode, with signal JFET devices forming the input stage and power JFET devices for the output stage.

JFET transistors have long been recognized as having the highest audio quality of any transistor; the input devices of the J2 are known through the industry as the standard for low noise and linearity, and are found on the inputs of the finest phono stages, line level preamplifiers, and power amplifiers.

But for over 30 years robust power JFETs have not been widely available since the short-lived efforts of Sony and Yamaha. In the last few months, advances in Silicon Carbide (SiC) technology have resulted in new power JFET transistors with high voltage, current, and power capabilities – as high as 1200 volts, 30 amps, and 273 watts.

Created by SemiSouth Corporation of Mississippi, these robust new JFETs are designed for very fast high power switching in solar power and electric car applications. However, they also have a very low distortion characteristic that makes them superb for use in linear amplifiers. In apples-to-apples comparisons with comparable MOSFET type power transistors, they can achieve 10 to 20 dB improvements in distortion performance.

For over 10 years First Watt has been pushing the design envelope with simple high performance Class A amplifier circuits, and when a better transistor like this comes along, it can mean getting the same distortion performance with a lot less feedback, or lower distortion with the same amount of feedback. The J2 does amplifier does both,and that helps make it a better sounding amplifier than the best of its predecessors.

With a device that behaves a little like a tube, it is natural to consider popular tube amplifier design topologies. Single-Ended Class A tube amplifiers are not very powerful, and their measurement numbers are not exceptional, but there is no arguing that they have strong musical appeal to much of the audiophile population. The J2 amplifier uses a classic JFET differential input stage followed by a single power JFET transistor. This power JFET is biased by another JFET in what is known in tube circles as a “mu follower”.

Here is a slightly simplified schematic of the J2 circuit. It could be a classic tube amp, except that the P channel input JFETs would have to be fabricated from anti-matter. The single-ended Class A output stage is “second harmonic” in character, and it uses about half the feedback of a comparable MOSFET circuit but with half the distortion and twice the bandwidth.

 

[Holmz]

Sorry @godofwealth bridging the two first watt amps, was my week attempt at humour.

I do find SETs interesting, but I need a bit more umphf with the speakers in my system.

 

[bonzo75]

Sorry @godofwealth bridging the two first watt amps, was my week attempt at humour.

I do find SETs interesting, but I need a bit more umphf with the speakers in my system.

get better speakers

 

[godofwealth]

SETs need to be paired carefully with the right speakers to avoid disappointment. For that matter, I don’t believe in this mythical beast called the perfect universal amplifier. It depends on the speaker (just as tires need to be matched to a car and the owner’s driving habits and the road surface, whether it’s winter or summer etc.).

I use a Triode Labs 45M mono block with a pair of Klipsch La Scalas. The La Scalas are 105 dB efficient, so the 1.5-2 watts from my Triode Labs SET is plenty, way more than I need. Mostly the amplifier is probably producing a few tens of milliwatts to drive the La Scalas. I’m listening now to the great jazz album The Gentle Side of John Coltrane on CD. Sounds beautiful.

I would be insane to drive my Harbeth Monitor 40.1s with these SETs. The Harbeth’s are 20 dB less efficient. I need roughly 100 times the power to drive my Harbeth’s. A good amplifier to drive my Harbeth is the Quad Artera, which produces about 140 watts into 8 ohms, and around 240 watts into a 4 ohm load. Being a Peter Walker current dumping design. the Artera has a gentler treble than most solid state amplifiers.

Here’s a worst case scenario. I have a 30+ year old pair of Martin Logan CLS’es in my closet that I occasionally pull out. This is one of the nastiest loads for any amplifier, with the impedance in the treble dropping down to less than 2 ohms and incredibly inefficient. As my pair is really old, it’s probably 75 dB or so efficient. I have a pair of D-Sonic 1500 watt class D amplifiers that are light enough to be picked up in one hand. These drive the CLS’es quite well.

So, there’s a nice range from a 1.5 watt amplifier to a 1500 watt amplifier! Match the speaker to the right amplifier and you’ll be happy!

 

[godofwealth]

Just received the Nelson Pass designed First Watt J-2, which uses a special type of very low distortion JFET made for electric cars and solar panel installations! According to Pass, these devices can be run happily at tube like voltages (even 1200 volts!) and could actually be inserted in a 300B SET amplifier. Their main advantage is a much lower distortion profile without any feedback. See pic below comparing these new JFETs made by Semi South with traditional JFETs.

So, how does it sound? Very nice indeed. Probably the most “tube” like solid state amplifier I have yet heard. 25 watts, though, is complete overkill for my La Scalas. I’d be happier if Mr. Pass would produce a 5 watt version! Apparently these new devices are now unobtanium. Those who thought NOS tubes like WE 300Bs doesn’t apply to modern solid state should think again. Solid state devices become unavailable just as often or more often as companies go bust. Turnover in the solid state world is much worse.

 

[SONDEKNZ]

Just received the Nelson Pass designed First Watt J-2, which uses a special type of very low distortion JFET made for electric cars and solar panel installations! According to Pass, these devices can be run happily at tube like voltages (even 1200 volts!) and could actually be inserted in a 300B SET amplifier. Their main advantage is a much lower distortion profile without any feedback. See pic below comparing these new JFETs made by Semi South with traditional JFETs.

So, how does it sound? Very nice indeed. Probably the most “tube” like solid state amplifier I have yet heard. 25 watts, though, is complete overkill for my La Scalas. I’d be happier if Mr. Pass would produce a 5 watt version! Apparently these new devices are now unobtanium. Those who thought NOS tubes like WE 300Bs doesn’t apply to modern solid state should think again. Solid state devices become unavailable just as often or more often as companies go bust. Turnover in the solid state world is much worse.

It sounds like the lower-power FIRST WATT “SIT” amps might be a better match with your KLIPSCH loudspeakers.

We owned a J2 for many years and agree that it is a wonderful amplifier with a deeply extended and textured bottom-end, and a truly special top-end.

I believe Mr. Pass applied a small amount of feedback to the J2, but happy to be corrected on this point.

We used the J2 with 12dB of additional gain provided by an active tubed preamp. This was a great match with our 93dB loudspeakers and provided plenty of headroom.

Ultimately, we returned to tubes for a more dimensional and spacious sound, but would
highly recommend the J2 for anyone who is not interested in faffing around with tubes and their upkeep.

 

[charles1dad]

@SONDEKNZ
“Ultimately, we returned to tubes for a more dimensional and spacious sound, “

And in addition, tone/timbre/harmonic overtones/tactile presence. These are the “Raison d etre “ of tubes when well implemented. For me, mandatory essentials.
Charles

 

[christoph]

@SONDEKNZ
“Ultimately, we returned to tubes for a more dimensional and spacious sound, “

And in addition, tone/timbre/harmonic overtones/tactile presence. These are the “Raison d etre “ of tubes when well implemented. For me, mandatory essentials.
Charles

I couldn't agree more

 

[Zeotrope]

Lower losses and greater realism - www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html

I recently upgraded my crossover with Duelund CAST caps. Prior to this I used “military grade” metal foil and poly caps. Huge difference! Soundstage size, localization, timbre, tone, dynamics… as if I upgraded every component in my system.
Probably the best value upgrade one can make is a crossover upgrade.

Despite howls of derision from sub users (who have made life over-complicated for themselves) and AV system guys (whose brains are spending more time processing vision then audio), I've concluded that the top end (where adjustments of level are not required), suffer from the DSP processor. Passing high frequencies through this processor sucks some of the life from the music. It ends up less lifelike and this fact is best demonstrated when horn speakers (or maybe electrostatics) are at the receiving end.

Room correction DSP should in my view only be applied to the bass frequencies and this requires active crossover before amplification. Only the bass amp should include a room correction DSP. This is how Avantgarde do things (with their XD DSP in their bass amps) and likewise with Martin Logan that use Anthem in the same way. Peter

Of course!
DSP is a “Band Aide” that really has no place in a high end music system, with the exception of perhaps the bass.
Room correction is much better than EQ.
and DSP unnecessarily converts the analog signal to and from digital.
In a modestly priced or low priced system, DSP will give you more improvements

 

[Zeotrope]

I don’t see how a 2W amp can power any speaker adequately.
“Adequate” defined as able to recreate live music. This requires the ability to play 105dB peaks without distortion (ie, 85dB avg plus 20dB headroom). Before you say ‘that’s way too loud, I would never listen at 105dB’, you’re not actually listening at that level and actual live music often exceeds these peaks.
I think it was Art Dudley from Stereophile who measured >105dB from row J in a symphony.

An online calc will give you an idea of how much power you need. Even with 105dB speakers, and that’s about the max you can get, realistically, you need at least 9W, even sitting 3m away.
Link to o

Request Rejected

As such, the Kondo Japan Souga (dual 2A3) is the best you can get. Even it is pushing it at only 8W.

High Fidelity

www.highfidelity.pl

(Don’t be too scared by the price. No one pays retail for these

 

[charles1dad]

If that’s your standard for “adequate “ sound levels, good for you. Not for me. I attend live music venues quite often and love the experience. I realized a long time ago that I do not n/want to replicate that volume at home for my extended and frequent listening sessions.

I enjoy my audio system listening sessions immensely at what I find to be very comfortable and engaging levels. But clearly that’s me. Obviously you do what works best snd satisfies you.
Charles

 

[godofwealth]

I don’t see how a 2W amp can power any speaker adequately.
“Adequate” defined as able to recreate live music. This requires the ability to play 105dB peaks without distortion (ie, 85dB avg plus 20dB headroom). Before you say ‘that’s way too loud, I would never listen at 105dB’, you’re not actually listening at that level and actual live music often exceeds these peaks.
I think it was Art Dudley from Stereophile who measured >105dB from row J in a symphony.

An online calc will give you an idea of how much power you need. Even with 105dB speakers, and that’s about the max you can get, realistically, you need at least 9W, even sitting 3m away.
Link to o

Request Rejected

As such, the Kondo Japan Souga (dual 2A3) is the best you can get. Even it is pushing it at only 8W.

High Fidelity

www.highfidelity.pl

(Don’t be too scared by the price. No one pays retail for these

Umm.. you’re assuming an average speaker efficiency of 85 dB. Of course, you’re right — I would never use a 2 watt amplifier with my Harbeth Monitor 40.1s, which have an efficiency of 84 dB, or for that matter, with my 30+year old Martin Logan CLS’es, whose efficiency is less than 80 dB!

But my primary speaker these days is a pair of Klipsch La Scalas, whose efficiency is 105 dB. 1 watt into the La Scalas will produce, trust me, sound that is so loud you’d go deaf quickly. For the La Scalas, I don’t see any reason to go above 5-10 watts. I have driven them with a range of amplifiers, from SET tubes to class A solid state amplifiers to PWM digital amplifiers.

By a significant margin, SETs produce the best sound, with a majestic wraparound sound staging and a seamless ravishing midrange. It’s surreal that a 200 pound refrigerator sized behemoth can be driven so effortlessly by flea sized tube amplifiers that produce less heat than my solid state class A 25 watt amplifier (First Watt J2), but that‘s the brilliance of Klipsch‘s genius. 70 years since he designed the corner mounted Klipschorn, most audiophiles have not grasped the fundamental advantages of horn loaded designs, not least of which is low distortion. You talk of the need to produce 105 dB for recreating
live sound. What you don’t say, which is even more important, is that you hear 105 dB peaks in an orchestra with 0% distortion (by definition, live unamplified sound has no distortion!)

Ok, tell me which loudspeaker will produce 105 dB levels with 0%. distortion?None! Ok, which will produce the lowest distortion at 105 dB? That’s the Klipschorn and the La Scalas, which have distortion around 0.1% even at 100+ dB. Your garden variety 85 dB efficient moving coil, even the most expensive JBLs, Magicos, Wilson’s, all will produce 10 % distortion or worse at that sound level, particularly in the bass where most moving coil dynamic speakers perform very poorly. Check out the distortion curves of the ultra expensive JBL M2 even at 96 dB. The thing is going to pieces in the bass with distortion at -40dB. At 105 dB, it’s probably completely distorting. Goodbye, high fidelity.

JBL M2 Master Reference Monitor

JBL M2 Master Reference Monitor

www.erinsaudiocorner.com

 

[bonzo75]

(ie, 85dB avg plus 20dB headroom).

i thought you had DIY horns, not apogee

 

[Zeotrope]

i thought you had DIY horns, not apogee

?? What you quoted is SPL. 85+20 = 105dB should be the minimum target for any hi fidelity system to reach if it’s trying to recreate live music.

 

[Zeotrope]

Umm.. you’re assuming an average speaker efficiency of 85 dB. Of course, you’re right — I would never use a 2 watt amplifier with my Harbeth Monitor 40.1s, which have an efficiency of 84 dB, or for that matter, with my 30+year old Martin Logan CLS’es, whose efficiency is less than 80 dB!

But my primary speaker these days is a pair of Klipsch La Scalas, whose efficiency is 105 dB. 1 watt into the La Scalas will produce, trust me, sound that is so loud you’d go deaf quickly. For the La Scalas, I don’t see any reason to go above 5-10 watts. I have driven them with a range of amplifiers, from SET tubes to class A solid state amplifiers to PWM digital amplifiers.

By a significant margin, SETs produce the best sound, with a majestic wraparound sound staging and a seamless ravishing midrange. It’s surreal that a 200 pound refrigerator sized behemoth can be driven so effortlessly by flea sized tube amplifiers that produce less heat than my solid state class A 25 watt amplifier (First Watt J2), but that‘s the brilliance of Klipsch‘s genius. 70 years since he designed the corner mounted Klipschorn, most audiophiles have not grasped the fundamental advantages of horn loaded designs, not least of which is low distortion. You talk of the need to produce 105 dB for recreating
live sound. What you don’t say, which is even more important, is that you hear 105 dB peaks in an orchestra with 0% distortion (by definition, live unamplified sound has no distortion!)

Ok, tell me which loudspeaker will produce 105 dB levels with 0%. distortion?None! Ok, which will produce the lowest distortion at 105 dB? That’s the Klipschorn and the La Scalas, which have distortion around 0.1% even at 100+ dB. Your garden variety 85 dB efficient moving coil, even the most expensive JBLs, Magicos, Wilson’s, all will produce 10 % distortion or worse at that sound level, particularly in the bass where most moving coil dynamic speakers perform very poorly. Check out the distortion curves of the ultra expensive JBL M2 even at 96 dB. The thing is going to pieces in the bass with distortion at -40dB. At 105 dB, it’s probably completely distorting. Goodbye, high fidelity.

JBL M2 Master Reference Monitor

JBL M2 Master Reference Monitor

www.erinsaudiocorner.com

View attachment 101177

I guess you didn’t read my post or see the image of my speakers. You’re preaching to the choir
I didn’t say anything about 85dB efficienct speakers. My horns are about 105dB effecient and 8W is the min., they won’t quite hit 105dB SPL with 8W.
I used to think my Kondo Souga SET was the best match, but then I tried the DarTZeel pre and power amps and they are much better.

 

[godofwealth]

It sounds like the lower-power FIRST WATT “SIT” amps might be a better match with your KLIPSCH loudspeakers.

We owned a J2 for many years and agree that it is a wonderful amplifier with a deeply extended and textured bottom-end, and a truly special top-end.

I believe Mr. Pass applied a small amount of feedback to the J2, but happy to be corrected on this point.

We used the J2 with 12dB of additional gain provided by an active tubed preamp. This was a great match with our 93dB loudspeakers and provided plenty of headroom.

Ultimately, we returned to tubes for a more dimensional and spacious sound, but would
highly recommend the J2 for anyone who is not interested in faffing around with tubes and their upkeep.

View attachment 101163

I’m getting more impressed by the J-2 after I hooked it up to my ARC Reference tube preamplifier. Like you accurately said, it has a really lovely sound. I can see why Pass’ First Watt designs are so prized by collectors. The extra power it has gives it a bigger dynamic range than my SETs, but without losing too much of the bloom and dimensionality that makes SETs so enjoyable. All in all, I’m happy I bought it. Highly recommended to SET lovers as well as those who want SET-like sound without the hassles of owning tube gear.