Michael Fremer's home power-system story

[Addicted to hifi]

OT and FWIW- I owned the Audible Illusions Modulus 3a circa 1979 as it was the first tube preamp that made me think "OK, I get it. I understand what a tube preamp is trying to be!" Audio memory lane can be a bitch. But I really enjoyed that Modulus 3a with Telefunkens.

I think my system at the time was better than fremers.I had infinity iris epsilon speakers .a vpi tnt make 4 turntable and a mark levinsion CD player.power amps where bat Vk500 two of them in biamp mode.the preamp was threshold feat nine and I went to the audible illusions and the sound was not as good as the fet nine.I than bought the bat vk40i flagship solid state preamp and that sounded very good Clearly better than the 3a.

 

[Addicted to hifi]

Ok I see he is writing about 3 and 3a there.

The only preamps he is referencing at that point is AR PH3 and sonic frontiers.

And yes, he loved it in that reference level.

So addicted to hifi, when you tried this pre, what was your reference level, was it similar to Fremer's at that time?

I believe my system was better than his at the time.my previous message explains the equipment I owned at the time.

 

[Lagonda]

Ok I see he is writing about 3 and 3a there.

The only preamps he is referencing at that point is AR PH3 and sonic frontiers.

And yes, he loved it in that reference level.

So addicted to hifi, when you tried this pre, what was your reference level, was it similar to Fremer's at that time?

Back then Fremers reference level was Musical Fidelity, one of Stereophiles bigger advertising buyers at the time !

 

[tima]

EDIT: I forgot to mention that I also replaced my Furutech IEC connectors that went directly from the in wall wiring to the backs of my amplifiers with the Hubble industrial receptacles. I was quite surprised that the basic outlets sounded much better that the famcy and expensive audiophile connectors.

Hubble makes quality stuff.

I've come (somewhat lately) to the view that if a wire or connector is labeled "audiophile" it often has some sort of sonic agenda.

As Rex says:

Some do less damage than others.

 

[the sound of Tao]

What’s a sonic agenda Tim?

 

[tima]

What’s a sonic agenda Tim?

An intent to differentiate the sound of a cable from another cable.

Qua audiophile cable, a manufacturer often wants to set his product apart from other such cables. Sometimes that may be price, but presumably one buys an audiophile cable based on some more primary consideration than cost alone. Regardless of technical specifications, most will opt for an audiophile cable that offers what they perceive as a sonic benefit.

cf this post

 

[DasguteOhr]

Back then Fremers reference level was Musical Fidelity, one of Stereophiles bigger advertising buyers at the time !

say nothing against musical fidelity the devices are above average in their price class, which cannot be said of some expensive devices.
my first highend gear thorens td 320, alphason tonarm, vdh ddt II at Musical fidelity David+ Triangle Speakers. it is really fun to listen to music

 

[andromedaaudio]

An intent to differentiate the sound of a cable from another cable.

Qua audiophile cable, a manufacturer often wants to set his product apart from other such cables

Lol , exactly its the way to differentiate yourself in the cable business .

Sometimes the whole audiophile industry appears like a complete joke to me , sorry to say so .


Ps its not to say anything bad about M fremer / stereophile which i think is quite an honest magazine with good measurements
I read it as half review( nice story ) / half advertising , nothing wrong with that .
Its the business model of magazines in general

 

[dcathro]

Back then Fremers reference level was Musical Fidelity, one of Stereophiles bigger advertising buyers at the time !

Michealson was a clever businessman and MF had a huge product range. I remember that in the late 90s, Stereophile would review one of their products almost every every month.

 

[the sound of Tao]

An intent to differentiate the sound of a cable from another cable.

Qua audiophile cable, a manufacturer often wants to set his product apart from other such cables. Sometimes that may be price, but presumably one buys an audiophile cable based on some more primary consideration than cost alone. Regardless of technical specifications, most will opt for an audiophile cable that offers what they perceive as a sonic benefit.

cf this post

Thanks Tim, yes, the gear that has the least signature also potentially has a fidelity. Brand specific as you like it sonic signatures and recognisable (and marketable) reliable sound styles can be a feature of many audio brands (I’d suggest just not a cable exclusive).

Having designed in marketable characteristic qualities can easily stretch to include speakers, electronics, system infrastructure and all kinds of tweaks known for their obvious revelations of detailing or inky black backgrounds, their immersive qualities, their consistent render of a type of sonic beauty or tuneful emphasis that may then or may not be authentic. This can create an expectation and anticipated reward when upgrading within the brand ecosystem and loyal custom. Possibly as a marketing move, or sometimes just as a designer preference, or a constraint in the quality of the design, the materiality or the fundamentals of a topology. Gear of realness is a goal, systems of realness the grail.

 

[microstrip]

I don’t believe anything in micheal fremers reviews. His room is small and big speakers in corners of the room Doesn’t make any sense to me.long time ago I bought a preamp on his great review and it sounded very poor.since than I don’t look at anything he reviews.

Well, it looks you want to use an high-end review as a Consumer Reports type recommendation - IMHO an hazardous way of buying equipment. As I often say I read reviews mostly for entertainment and information about the components. If something attracts particularly my attention I consider that it is worth trying to listen or get more information, not buying!

Sometimes reviews have very interesting essays on high-end matters and people, as well as comments on some specific aspects of recordings - them I also find I learned something from them.

 

[microstrip]

There are grounding and power consultants that deal with large complex environments ( server farms, hospitals etc. ) . This is way outside residential electrician stuff if not 'rocket science'. Applying these practices to a high end system can only help...

Yes, I said it the part of the post you did not quote ...

My point was also that typical audiophile practice sometimes conflicts with the advice of these consultants and even reputables consultants disagree in fundamental aspects between themselves. It is not just a right or wrong binary situation.

 

[microstrip]

This has nothing to do with your claim of WBF majority, do you even know how many WBF members there are to know what the majority believe on this topic?

Well, I followed most of the threads in the

Audio and Video Power Product Forum​

I can assure you than most of our participant members are enthusiast about mains devices, regenrerators, balanced power or solar power.

For me it's still a small unit when maximum continuous rating is only 2kva not sure how it works in the real world under different loads but that's an aside what I mentioned was the coloration that such units introduce changing the character of the system and homogenizing it.

We have complete sets of measurements of these PSAudio devices. 2000VA , 3600 peak is more than enough for most users. And yes, we know your opinions on "colorations".

Still waiting to known why solar power in different from a regenerator. Just because usually it is more distorted and noisy?

I never used any PS Audio units for my tts only lab regenerators of 1.5kva and bigger but I've had them so I know what they are.


Which is all fine if eliminating unwanted hum and buzz and a simple way of solving a problem.


Agree with most of this and I'm also a very firm believer of the last 2m and the importance of getting it right but it doesn't mean that wiring before it isn't important.

I listen to them almost daily for over 13 years and have my own opinion of them. Our preferred systems and even music choices are total opposites no common ground on anything for us.

You never answered me, what is your opinion of these regenerators how they sounded in your home?

david

As I referred before the PS Audio P10 sounded like my mains - it was why I did not keep it. I got it because at some time the mains voltage was low, as soon as the electrical company fixed it it was not needed. I have three direct lines to the 10 meter away distribution board.

 

[Addicted to hifi]

Well, it looks you want to use an high-end review as a Consumer Reports type recommendation - IMHO an hazardous way of buying equipment. As I often say I read reviews mostly for entertainment and information about the components. If something attracts particularly my attention I consider that it is worth trying to listen or get more information, not buying!

Sometimes reviews have very interesting essays on high-end matters and people, as well as comments on some specific aspects of recordings - them I also find I learned something from them.

I agree with you.i always try to listen to the product but in this case there wasn’t one available for a listen.

 

[Solypsa]

Yes, I said it the part of the post you did not quote ...

My point was also that typical audiophile practice sometimes conflicts with the advice of these consultants and even reputables consultants disagree in fundamental aspects between themselves. It is not just a right or wrong binary situation.

what is?

 

[Solypsa]

"Any electrician certified to make an electrical installation in health services or laboratories should be able to carry this type of work. When I rebuilt my house I had the new ground measured. Many people ignore that the best part of a separate power supply is not the dedicated neutral and hot, but the dedicated ground wire"

The part I did not quote. Your statement seems to minimize the value of these professionals imho, however that aside, in your installation, please describe the difference between the ground and neutral wiring schemes with regard to implementation?

 

[Addicted to hifi]

Well, it looks you want to use an high-end review as a Consumer Reports type recommendation - IMHO an hazardous way of buying equipment. As I often say I read reviews mostly for entertainment and information about the components. If something attracts particularly my attention I consider that it is worth trying to listen or get more information, not buying!

Sometimes reviews have very interesting essays on high-end matters and people, as well as comments on some specific aspects of recordings - them I also find I learned something from them.

These days I don’t buy nothing without a listen first.those were my early days into this hobby.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I don’t believe anything in micheal fremers reviews. His room is small and big speakers in corners of the room Doesn’t make any sense to me.long time ago I bought a preamp on his great review and it sounded very poor.since than I don’t look at anything he reviews.

Doesn't a thoughtful audiophile learn pretty quickly in this hobby that one cannot put a given piece of particular equipment randomly in a system and predict how it will sound?

By all accounts Michael Fremer achieves excellent and convincing sound in his room. In any event if the room and his AC power are held constant across reviews then the essence of each component under review is comparable to the essence of each other component under review.

A thoughtful and careful reader who follows Michael over a period of time inevitably is able to triangulate on Michael's preferences. I think Michael is one of the most intellectually honest reviewers in the business.

 

[dcathro]

I think Michael is one of the most intellectually honest reviewers in the business.

I get that feeling as well.

 

[tima]

Our Lamm' equipment is extremely sensitive to any problem in power wiring or grounding as they are single ended high impedance inputs - we must use them with cheaters to cut the ground connection or simply cut the safety ground wire when using long wires to avoid hum.

Never had an issue. I assume you speak royally for your locale.