Visit to Marc C.'s (SpiritOfMusic's) House in England

[spiritofmusic]

Again not proof of anything to do with the speakers you heard. I have heard, for example, Animas sound as you describe but I have also heard them sound pretty awesome. I have heard Avantgarde speakers mostly sound horrible but a couple times sound amazing. I am not ready to write off either speaker based on these experiences because I know this kind of speaker is like an audio microscope and anything wrong will be exposed. The Symphonia doesn’t have a hard mid at all so something else was at play...could very well have been the line power.

I had an experience in Munich where a Cessaro/KR Audio room (I was a KR Audio dealer at the time) was sounding poor...rough glassy mids and highs and weak bass. I was sitting talking (because listening wasn’t great) to a guy near the end of the day when suddenly (and I do mean from one moment to the next) the sound hat dramatically better! I mean head snapping time. I was like WTF??!! Then I realized it was just after closing time for the day and most rooms had shut down. It was then I realized just how important clean power was(I was skeptical before that) and how it can fundamentally change the sound.

Possibly Brad. I can only report as I heard things.

 

[morricab]

The sound was flawed at this demo. I can't imagine what the issue was other than me being sensitive to this presentation.
There was not one suggestion I could easily have made to confidently predict an improvement in SQ.
I'm not sure what you're disagreeing w me about.

Whether or not the speakers were to blame...

 

[spiritofmusic]

Just false self esteem...

You're sounding like your grandfather now Lol.

 

[PeterA]

You're sounding like your grandfather now Lol.

I actually do not think it is funny. My grandfather and I attended schools that recognized achievement through awards and team captains. I sent my daughters to such a school. It prioritized academics and achievement and had very high standards for admissions and completion. Merit had to be earned. By the time they graduated after ten years (pre K - 8), the school had "woken up" and completely changed. No more academic awards, no more sports captains, no more prize day. The reason they gave the outraged parents was that not all kids could get honors or be the soccer captain. This is becoming a real issue over here. And once the kids graduate into the real world, there is competition again, something they will not be prepared for.

 

[morricab]

Possibly Brad. I can only report as I heard things.

No, you made a judgement on the speakers, which goes well beyond mere reporting. You claimed the speakers were “seriously flawed”.

 

[Ron Resnick]

People feel good by achievement of something real and challenging not by being given things.

This may be your personal feeling about yourself. This may be how you wish and hope other humans are wired as a normative matter.

You are stating this as declaration of immutable human nature, it seems. I see in many contexts and very frequently that people are delighted to be given things.

On what is this maxim of human nature based?

 

[morricab]

This may be your personal feeling about yourself. This may be how you wish and hope other humans are wired as a normative matter.

You are stating this as declaration of immutable human nature, it seems. I see in many contexts and very frequently that people are delighted to be given things.

On what is this maxim of human nature based?

This is not just my personal feelings...it has been studied and documented. I will see if I can find relevant studies to illustrate.

 

[the sound of Tao]

Because the hobby often involves digging down into the Earth, without a torch. I would have said tunnel, but there's often no light at the end of it Lol.
There were a few factors that contributed to the sub par outcome I heard.
The room was challenging, effectively L-shaped, w the sitting position right at the elbow of the L.
The room was too small for these spkrs.
We were using a prototype server w quad switch.
There was too much switching of power cords A-B-As.
I suspect other spkrs would have been similarly challenged.
But I also can't deny what I heard, a certain abrasive hardness that was present track to track, and once heard, impossible to unhear.

Absolutely Marc

 

[morricab]

This may be your personal feeling about yourself. This may be how you wish and hope other humans are wired as a normative matter.

You are stating this as declaration of immutable human nature, it seems. I see in many contexts and very frequently that people are delighted to be given things.

On what is this maxim of human nature based?

Short term hits to the pleasure center are not what we are discussing. Like a shopping addict. I saw this with my daughter where they gave all the kids a medal regardless of how they placed in an ice skating competition...she got fourth and doesn’t give a damn about the “participation “ medal...when everyone gets one then no one values what it is supposed to mean. The kids instinctively understand this but woke parents think, stupidly “Let’s give them all one so they feel good” except they are clueless to the fact it does the opposite. Experience with disappointment and stress allow for growth...

 

[Ron Resnick]

It is very unusual to be able to swap only speakers in a system in which everything else is held constant.

If we hear the same speaker in different systems and in different rooms over time we like to think, at least, that we can somehow triangulate on the inherent sound of that speaker because we have heard it in different systems and in different rooms and at different times.

How many experiences (personal data points) should we have with a particular speaker in order to be able to have some confidence that we have distilled the essence of the sound of the speaker -- and be confident that we are not falsely and unfairly attributing to the speaker the sound of bad AC power or some other component or room anomalies, etc.?

 

[morricab]

I actually do not think it is funny. My grandfather and I attended schools that recognized achievement through awards and team captains. I sent my daughters to such a school. It prioritized academics and achievement and had very high standards for admissions and completion. Merit had to be earned. By the time they graduated after ten years (pre K - 8), the school had "woken up" and completely changed. No more academic awards, no more sports captains, no more prize day. The reason they gave the outraged parents was that not all kids could get honors or be the soccer captain. This is becoming a real issue over here. And once the kids graduate into the real world, there is competition again, something they will not be prepared for.

We are pretty much on the same page here Peter...now with hifi too!

 

[bonzo75]

How many experiences (personal data points) should we have with a particular speaker in this situation in order to be able to have some confidence that we have distilled the essence of the sound of the speaker?

You look to see if previous assessments start repeating in next situations. So if you think a speaker is bright and doesn't stage, and next system it doesn't sound bright and has great stage, then you didn't have a handle. But in three systems you have the same attributes repeating with radically different set ups, then you know. Similarly, you can change ancillary components in those systems and the attribute of the core component might still be be retained (or might not)

 

[morricab]

It is very unusual to be able to swap only speakers in a system in which everything else is held constant.

If we hear the same speaker in different systems and in different rooms over time we like to think, at least, that we can somehow triangulate on the inherent sound of that speaker because we have heard it in different systems and in different rooms and at different times.

How many experiences (personal data points) should we have with a particular speaker in order to be able to have some confidence that we have distilled the essence of the sound of the speaker -- and be confident that we are not falsely and unfairly attributing to the speaker the sound of bad AC power or some other component or room anomalies, etc.?

At least a few I would say.

 

[morricab]

You look to see if previous assessments start repeating in next situations. So if you think a speaker is bright and doesn't stage, and next system it doesn't sound bright and has great stage, then you didn't have a handle. But in three systems you have the same attributes repeating with radically different set ups, then you know. Similarly, you can change ancillary components in those systems and the attribute of the core component might still be be retained (or might not)

It could still be wrong but that would likely be enough for a first approximation on whether or not to pursue the item in question. If it is so much work to get it to “work” then it is probably not worth it. Think Keith R’s YG experience...

 

[spiritofmusic]

No, you made a judgement on the speakers, which goes well beyond mere reporting. You claimed the speakers were “seriously flawed”.

Point taken. They weren't for me in the end, despite lots of anticipation ahead of the demo.

 

[spiritofmusic]

I do

It is very unusual to be able to swap only speakers in a system in which everything else is held constant.

If we hear the same speaker in different systems and in different rooms over time we like to think, at least, that we can somehow triangulate on the inherent sound of that speaker because we have heard it in different systems and in different rooms and at different times.

How many experiences (personal data points) should we have with a particular speaker in order to be able to have some confidence that we have distilled the essence of the sound of the speaker -- and be confident that we are not falsely and unfairly attributing to the speaker the sound of bad AC power or some other component or room anomalies, etc.?

I don't know Ron. The chances of me hearing the Symphonias again is pretty slim/non existent. But if they didn't shine for me in an all-Aries Cerat system, then I don't know what to think. And the owner had optimised the system to his liking over time, this was no thrown together hotel room show setup.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Short term hits to the pleasure center are not what we are discussing. Like a shopping addict. I saw this with my daughter where they gave all the kids a medal regardless of how they placed in an ice skating competition...she got fourth and doesn’t give a damn about the “participation “ medal...when everyone gets one then no one values what it is supposed to mean. The kids instinctively understand this but woke parents think, stupidly “Let’s give them all one so they feel good” except they are clueless to the fact it does the opposite. Experience with disappointment and stress allow for growth...

Brad, there's a coastal town near us where the richest families from Central London have their second homes. And the kids run riot in the pub garden, playing tag, nearly bowling over waiting staff and pints of beer. And the parents really think this amount of freedom and zero rules/discipline will be positive for their kids' development.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I questioned Brad's human nature declaration because I see in many different contexts people happy simply to receive things -- and even demanding things -- they didn't earn or work for or do anything to deserve. How many kids donate their trust funds or inheritances to charity because they feel bad that they didn't do anything or accomplish anything to deserve the money?

 

[Argonaut]

Be advised.....A combination of variable settings are available to the intrepid Symphonia owner

Midrange reproduction​

The midrange horn is made from solid wood, it’s unique flare is designed to eliminate all possible diffractions, which all other horns suffer from, and are part of their sound character.
We completely eliminate diffraction coloration, which smears transients, with our 360 degree bullet-shaped solid-wood horns.
The driver used is large format (4inch diaphragm) titanium driver, with a massive magnetic system(11kg magnet weight).

The midrange acoustic level can be altered via a multitap transformer, for tuning the speaker according to each room’s acoustics.

Filter design.​

The external crossover, consists of three constant group delay filters. A constant group delay filter, is our own proprietary design, which alters the attenuation slopes of the driver filters, to shape the phase(and doing so the GD)in such a way ,as to provide maximum GD linearity.
Using this specific filter technology to the physically time aligned horns, the Symphonia speaker present time domain performance which is near perfect, and a frequency response with a maximum deviation of +-0.5db (250Hz-20KHz).


Sensitivity : 101db
Frequency response(-3db) : 32Hz~100Khz

 

[morricab]

I questioned Brad's human nature declaration because I see in many different contexts people happy simply to receive things -- and even demanding things -- they didn't earn or work for or do anything to deserve. How many kids donate their trust funds or inheritances to charity because they feel bad that they didn't do anything or accomplish anything to deserve the money?

You are looking how people present on the outside but that is often radically different to how they feel about themselves. You are talking very superficially about something that goes deep in the psyche.