State-of-the-Art Digital

[acousticsguru]

Blanket assertion. Mike Moffat appears to think otherwise.



Obviously you have not paid attention to my posts -- why would you, since you dismiss the technical performance of the Yggy anyway, whereas I appreciate the one of dCS DACs (how all the technical performance correlates with sonics is a different matter). The zero-crossing distortion of the first generation Yggy is already negligible (the graph in Stereophile is at -90 dB), and in version 2 it appears to be basically eliminated:

Schiit Yggdrasil V2 upgrade Technical Measurements

These measurements are a bit easier on the eye (notice the effect of what is apparently a symmetrical filter):



Greetings from Switzerland, David.

 

[Al M.]

Those are the measurements of version 1 of the Yggdrasil DAC, not version 2.

 

[microstrip]

Those are the measurements of version 1 of the Yggdrasil DAC, not version 2.

Do you have similar measurements of the version 2?

 

[acousticsguru]

Those are the measurements of version 1 of the Yggdrasil DAC, not version 2.

I can't tell a difference in the waveform reconstruction, same symmetrical filter, by the way:



Greetings from Switzerland, David.

 

[acousticsguru]

Just for comparison, dCS Vivaldi (notice the graph was stretched for convenience):



Greetings from Switzerland, David.

 

[Al M.]

I can't tell a difference in the waveform reconstruction, same symmetrical filter, by the way:

View attachment 72510

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

The green sine wave is of version 2, and it is smooth (at -90 dB, no discernible zero-crossing distortion)

 

[Al M.]

Do you have similar measurements of the version 2?

See above post, and link above.

 

[acousticsguru]

The green sine wave is of version 2, and it is smooth (at -90 dB, no discernible zero-crossing distortion)

Oops, sorry about that! The red does look identical (at least I'm still able to read graphs, if apparently not writing). And you're right, of course, that's the part I found troubling looking at the graphs in the first place.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

 

[Al M.]

Oops, sorry about that! The red does look identical (at least I'm still able to read graphs, if apparently not writing). And you're right, of course, that's the part I found troubling looking at the graphs in the first place.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

No problem . Yes, the red (version 1) is similar to the Stereophile graph of the version 1 measurement.

 

[acousticsguru]

The green sine wave is of version 2, and it is smooth (at -90 dB, no discernible zero-crossing distortion)

No problem .

While this is one of the best waveform reconstruction measurements I've seen (along with dCS, MSB and a handful others), and even though I'd insist it's one of the few measurements that won't merely point to potential flaws (there's at least a morsel of positive correlation), by no stretch of the imagination does it tell us how a DAC sounds, I mean, without undue sarcasm, check these out:



Greetings from Switzerland, David.

 

[Al M.]

Here is the same -90 db measurement of the MSB Analog DAC (granted, not one of the newest generation MSB DACs):




I guess even the Yggy version 1 didn't compare unfavorably to this one, and the Yggy 2 looks definitely better than this (see above). As I perceive it, the Yggy 2 comes relatively much closer to the Weiss measurements.

 

[acousticsguru]

Here is the same -90 db measurement of the MSB Analog DAC (granted, not one of the newest generation MSB DACs):

View attachment 72515


I guess even the Yggy version 1 didn't compare unfavorably to this one, and the Yggy 2 looks definitely better than this (see above). As I perceive it, the Yggy 2 comes relatively much closer to the Weiss measurements.

In all fairness to MSB, this is more like it:



Greetings from Switzerland, David.

 

[ack]

The green sine wave is of version 2, and it is smooth (at -90 dB, no discernible zero-crossing distortion)

That Yggy2 green graph is pretty impressive

 

[acousticsguru]

That Yggy2 green graph is pretty impressive

I guess the problem is in the realm of SOTA DACs, those graphs all look impressive, and yet people love the one and hate the other, so much for the relevance of measurements…

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

 

[ack]

I guess the problem is in the realm of SOTA DACs, those graphs all look impressive, and yet people love the one and hate the other, so much for the relevance of measurements…

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

True, but I do want to praise the progress made by anyone and everyone in the digital field, and irrespective of the price tag.

 

[acousticsguru]

True, but I do want to praise the progress made by anyone and everyone in the digital field, and irrespective of the price tag.

You're right, it does look near-perfect. Still can't comment on the DAC, nor the improvement over the earlier version, as I simply don't know it.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

 

[acousticsguru]

To give an example, guess which of these sounded better to us in a blind (!) test, and by better I mean MUCH better, and in every way?



Greetings from Switzerland, David.

 

[Al M.]

To give an example, guess which of these sounded better to us in a blind (!) test, and by better I mean MUCH better, and in every way?

View attachment 72517View attachment 72518

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

The first measurement is from the Weiss DAC202 (you posted that above as well), and given your tastes I am sure you liked the dCS Delius (second measurement) much better. Can you describe the sound differences in more detail, David?

Thanks
Al

 

[Alrainbow]

While I love measuring things it many times misleads is to false conclusion. Having extremely low distortions to some makes for a dry sound .
jitter in its many many forms is a factual measurement can be directly correlated to better sound. but to add a little confusion how do you guys feel about playback formats.
same files be it red book or hi Rez. flac to AIFF
and of course flac no compression even add in wav. But I’m not a big wav fan.
any ideals on any of the formats. I’m curious in it’s observations.

 

[acousticsguru]

The first measurement is from the Weiss DAC202 (you posted that above as well), and given your tastes I am sure you liked the dCS Delius (second measurement) much better. Can you describe the sound differences in more detail, David?

Thanks
Al

Huge, holographic 3-D sound stage, lifelike, dynamic and engaging sound with truly wide-band bass and treble extension, digititis-free without any "softness", instead an in-your-face "You Are There" kind of realism, with in absolute terms (not compared to other DACs of the same era, but e.g. the owner's opera singer wife who was not only present in recording, but also in person) a slightly "ghostly" lack of density or palpability and barely noticeable grain (at realistic playback levels, near-impossible to hear any grain at more moderate levels) on the one hand, a flat (dynamically as well as in terms of soundstage height or size), clinical, lifeless, downright boring if not depressing presentation on the other hand. This was the first of a whole series of DAC comparisons I wrote about in parts on these forums at one point, in the course of which the Weiss owner relegated the DAC202 to his holiday cottage.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.