Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[ray-dude]

I am intrigued by the high efficiency speakers - direct drive from DAC concept. I have found a guinea pig willing to let me try that on his 112dB sensitivity horns. Will report back on that.

Sounds like you'll need a Chord DAVE to drive those speakers Emile

There are always tonal challenges with single driver speakers, which some people can not overcome. For me, I found that my brain very quickly recalibrated itself to tonal challenges (first on Omega Super Alnico Monitors, then my Voxativ 9.87's with 4D drivers), but that sense of holographic immersion and transparency was something that tapped into my brain like a dose of musical crack.

Very much looking forward to hearing what you hear (the speed and dynamics of Extreme with those horns will be something to hear!)

 

[spiritofmusic]

Ray, +1 re being a fan of full range drivers. Zu works to a different principle than Voxativ, but I think we both benefit from the immediacy, shove and tonal density of spkrs w zero/minimal xovers. The stellar nature of Extreme must have been pretty immediate thru yr 9.87s.

 

[CKKeung]

I am intrigued by the high efficiency speakers - direct drive from DAC concept. I have found a guinea pig willing to let me try that on his 112dB sensitivity horns. Will report back on that.

DACs connected to our Totaldac D-Drivers xlr version shall suit the job!

 

[matthias]

There are always tonal challenges with single driver speakers, which some people can not overcome. For me, I found that my brain very quickly recalibrated itself to tonal challenges (first on Omega Super Alnico Monitors, then my Voxativ 9.87's with 4D drivers), but that sense of holographic immersion and transparency was something that tapped into my brain like a dose of musical crack.

Ray,

how loud can you play with this set-up and what about PRaT, slam and dynamics with Big-Band Jazz and Rock?

Thanks

Matt

 

[ray-dude]

@spiritofmusic This is honestly the first time I'm thinking that my transducers may be the dynamics and speed choke point in my system. The sense of speed, dynamics, and absolute control with the Extreme really is something very very special.

Below was my description. Those here who've had the benefit of living with their Extremes longer than I have may have better language to describe this specialness than I do, but certainly this is the essence of the marvel I'm experiencing.

I’m grasping for analogies for what I am hearing, but I am reminded of the finest dancers, who have an incredible quiet grace and control that seems both absolute and absolutely effortless. They also evoke a quiet power that can explode at any moment into spectacular movements. As I reflect on and relish what I am hearing and experiencing, the Extreme on Daizas evokes that beautiful sense of being in the presence and in the moment with that remarkable dancer.

 

[ray-dude]

how loud can you play with this set-up and what about PRaT, slam and dynamics with Big-Band Jazz and Rock?

The 4D transducers in my Vox's are 104dB sensitivity, and the DAVE is absolutely clean and unstressed up to the full 2W output. I can drive things as loud as I can comfortably tolerate (and then some).

I have no issue rocking out with these bad boys (the Pi Bass units are particularly impressive...the physicality and speed of the opposing bass drivers is like nothing I've heard), but where they distinguish themselves is that sense of reality and being in the first 2 rows with the performers (vs being in the rock concert stadium).

 

[CKKeung]

200 pages of this Crème de la Crème thread now!


Is this the longest thread on WBF?
All of us have learned so much not only about the Extreme but all aspects of CAS during these months.

We must thank Emile for all his invaluable contributions. It seems that he doesn't need much sleep.


Steve : IMHO you are the best and most supportive forum/webmaster I have met.
Big thanks too!

 

[Steve williams]

200 pages of this Crème de la Crème thread now!


Is this the longest thread on WBF?
All of us have learned so much not only about the Extreme but all aspects of CAS during these months.

We must thank Emile for all his invaluable contributions. It seems that he doesn't need much sleep.


Steve : IMHO you are the best and most supportive forum/webmaster I have met.
Big thanks too!

Not sure if it's the longest thread but for me it has been the only thread in all the years of WBF which has kept my interest and kept me reading about Emile and all of his great products.

Emile's presence and continual involvement with his only desire to have the greatest music server is a tribute to his personal dedication. Plus when you meet him he's a down right terrific guy.

 

[Steve williams]

BTW CK a big thumbs' up to you for starting not only this thread but so many other interesting threads about new gear about which I know very little so thank you for enlightening me as well as the members here CK. It's guys like you, Howiebrou, adyc and so many other of your ardent audiophile friends that when our site went down due to a DoS and China and Hong Kong were black listed, I couldn't lose our Hong Kong connection and put in a firewall here so as not to lose you guys as members.

 

[Taiko Audio]

DACs connected to our Totaldac D-Drivers xlr version shall suit the job!

Interesting idea, will ask Vincent if they could do it!

 

[Taiko Audio]

Plus when you meet him he's a down right terrific guy.

Thank you Steve, same! Looking forward to visit you and Cathy again in a safer post COVID-19 world.

 

[Taiko Audio]

BTW CK a big thumbs' up to you for starting not only this thread but so many other interesting threads about new gear about which I know very little so thank you for enlightening me as well as the members here CK.

+1, keep up the good work CK

 

[Taiko Audio]

For those who missed it and are interested in trying out different SFP modules, @CKKeung found another interesting looking SFP module with a very low power consumption, this may be particularly well suited to the Uptone Ether Regen and should reduce it's operating temperature. You can find the original post here:

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/thre...etwork-gadget-setup.27758/page-23#post-650478

Yes, the two most popular optical transievers on WBF must be the Startech and Planet.
Both are recommendations of Emile.

View attachment 65424
View attachment 65425

However some friends and I in Hong Kong recently prefer the following Finisar and have already replaced all our transievers with it.


View attachment 65426

 

[nonesup]

The silly question of the day, but is this really new to me? When on a website they give a price for an SFP module, it is for a single unit or for the pair of two.

 

[Taiko Audio]

The silly question of the day, but is this really new to me? When on a website they give a price for an SFP module, it is for a single unit or for the pair of two.

Hi Francisco, priced per single unit.

 

[QSA-LANEDRI]

Sounds like you'll need a Chord DAVE to drive those speakers Emile

There are always tonal challenges with single driver speakers, which some people can not overcome. For me, I found that my brain very quickly recalibrated itself to tonal challenges (first on Omega Super Alnico Monitors, then my Voxativ 9.87's with 4D drivers), but that sense of holographic immersion and transparency was something that tapped into my brain like a dose of musical crack.

Very much looking forward to hearing what you hear (the speed and dynamics of Extreme with those horns will be something to hear!)

Hello Ray-dude,

First of all I'd like to share that it was a real pleasure to go though your amazing review. I am still in the burning process of the SGM Extreme with limitless music pleasure and I will base my future improvements path on your shared experience!

It happens that I use the Dave/Mscaler as I love the details/transparency and I I use the D'Agostino Progression preamp/amp to feed the Focal Maestro Utopia Evo (I was happy to find out that Emile has this set of speakers as well). The sensitivity of those Focal speakers is 93db, do you recommend to try out to feed the speakers directly from the Dave?

Thanks,
Anas

 

[nenon]

The sensitivity of those Focal speakers is 93db, do you recommend to try out to feed the speakers directly from the Dave?

I would not power up 93dB speakers with the Dave. For every 3 dB you have to double the power. So let's do the math.
With 1 Watt you get 93dB.
2 Watts would give you 96dB.
4 Watts would give you 99dB.
8 Watts would give you 102dB.
16 Watts would give you 105dB.
32 Watts would give you 108dB.

So you need to 32 Watts to achieve what @ray-dude can do with 2 Watts.
This actually gets a lot more complex, but let's keep it simple, as the short answer is NO.

 

[ray-dude]

@nenon is spot on. However, I will confess to trying DAVE direct to a variety of large speakers (including my (former) beloved B&W 802d3's). Going direct I think reveals a different layer of music than I've heard before. Even with these less efficient speakers, I could a hear a hint of that magic.

All that being said, having heard direct to a bunch of speakers with a bunch of different types of amps in the mix, I'd say the transparency win is first from eliminating the cross overs in the speakers (and going to a point source transducer), then from eliminating the amp. Different amps (and amp topologies) suck less transparency away (generally speaking, the few components in the path or the faster the amp, the better), but it is always giving something away on transparency and imaging when I test them with the Voxativs or Omega Super Alnico Monitors.

That being said, there is always a gain on impact and fullness, and at least with the Omegas, control on the low end (the Omegas in particular really benefit from a constant current amp topology like the First Watt F1J...I suspect some impedance roller coaster for the Omega transducer at the lower frequencies).

I'm full on addicted to that transparency of going direct, so I've had to tweak in other ways. The Voxativ transducers were a definite step up from the Omegas (to say the least), with a lot more speed and control. However, even with DAVE straight to the Voxativs it was sometimes lacking vs my B&W 802d3s (so frustrating!). When I replaced the internal SMPS in the DAVE with a custom Sean Jacobs DC3 supply, it was a revelation and I never went back to the B&Ws. The internal SMPS on DAVE was the final bottleneck to overcome, and I suspect the +-15V rails on the Sean Jacobs supply are what took speed and dynamics to a completely next level.

With Extreme, my spider sense is that the incredible speed and dynamics of Extreme may be pointing to a new bottleneck with my Vox 4D transducers, or perhaps even the Sean Jacobs supply. Alas, only way (right now) for me to test that hypothesis is loaner Vox 4phi drivers, or a loaner Sean Jacobs DC4 supply, and I suspect I may be waiting for a very long time for either to grace my doorstep

As an addendum, with the Hugo TT2, Chord now has a DAC with 18W output. My hope (dream?) was that the extra power would shine through and let me get past the DAVE. Alas, it took all of 10 seconds listening to know that DAVE was staying put. DAVE has a remarkable sense of depth and timing that the Hugo TT2 can't approach, even though TT2 has much large power output to draw from. If/when Rob gets around to a DAVE2, I'll be the first in line to preorder, but until then, it is still on a (Daiza) pedestal in my home.

 

[wil]

@romaz and @ray-dude, Have you both found the optical isolation provided by the Monoprice SlimRun USB extender to be preferable to your chosen USB cable by itself?

Or, is it simply a good solution for when you need to extend the distance of your USB? Thanks

 

[matthias]

@romaz and @ray-dude, Have you both found the optical isolation provided by the Monoprice SlimRun USB extender to be preferable to your chosen USB cable by itself?
Or, is it simply a good solution for when you need to extend the distance of your USB? Thanks

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/thre...-crème-de-la-crème.27433/page-151#post-631947

Matt