"More people spend $€£100-400k on a system than 10-40k"...

[spiritofmusic]

...read this just now on Mono And Stereo, words to this effect from a new high end specialist spkrs manufacturer.

Has it always been the case that the uber spendiest systems are bought in greater numbers than ones that the standard middle classes choose to buy?

Or are we talking a totally new phenomenon of the "squeezed middle"?

Ie Gen Z happy with headphones or IPod or basic Rega, $5k their limit; and AE crowd in HK happy w their rareified pieces, $500k+ not causing them to blink.

And an arid desert in between.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

...read this just now on Mono And Stereo, words to this effect from a new high end specialist spkrs manufacturer.

Has it always been the case that the uber spendiest systems are bought in greater numbers than ones that the standard middle classes choose to buy?

Or are we talking a totally new phenomenon of the "squeezed middle"?

Ie Gen Z happy with headphones or IPod or basic Rega, $5k their limit; and AE crowd in HK happy w their rareified pieces, $500k+ not causing them to blink.

And an arid desert in between.

Marc, you need to figure out the whole link thing.

Mono and Stereo is a broad site with lots of stuff. we need a link to that part.

love,

Mike

 

[KeithR]

the manufacturers have, themselves, caused this to happen. blaming it on the little guy is hysterical.

the average stereophile reader is 47 with an income of $138k and a system less than $20k:

http://www.avtechmediausa.com/mediakit.stph.pdf

that age is basically going up year by year, as well. hobby shrinking.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Marc, you need to figure out the whole link thing.

Mono and Stereo is a broad site with lots of stuff. we need a link to that part.

love,

Mike

Sure Mike. It's the recent article w Alsyvox, interview w Danielle Cohen designer. I may have read too much into his words. Less people than before spending 10-40k and more people than before spending 100-400k is not quite the same as actual numbers being less in the two price bands. But he's highlighting an ongoing and growing trend

 

[Al M.]

Sure Mike. It's the recent article w Alsyvox, interview w Danielle Cohen designer. I may have read too much into his words. Less people than before spending 10-40k and more people than before spending 100-400k is not quite the same as actual numbers being less in the two price bands. But he's highlighting an ongoing and growing trend

Link please.

 

[Rhapsody]

https://www.monoandstereo.com/2020/01/exclusive-interview-with-alsyvox.html

 

[spiritofmusic]

Bob, I can't even post links. How can I be trusted with a tablet and 93 million tracks Lol?!

 

[Rhapsody]

Bob, I can't even post links. How can I be trusted with a tablet and 93 million tracks Lol?!

I will get on your computer with TeamView and teach you how to post links

 

[spiritofmusic]

Maybe Bob. I'll have a go at learning from Links For Dummies lol.

Danielle's point remains an interesting one. Obviously it's not true in absolute numbers, but as a trend.

Sub $5k is very healthy it seems. Can Jam way busier than 2ch comparison. Cheapo IPod mkt is what it is. And now it seems that big Wilsons etc are flying off the shelves. And Danielle has a residency at AE, and they do silly amounts of business.

Can the middle hold out? Will it survive?

 

[Rhapsody]

Maybe Bob. I'll have a go at learning from Links For Dummies lol.

Danielle's point remains an interesting one. Obviously it's not true in absolute numbers, but as a trend.

Sub $5k is very healthy it seems. Can Jam way busier than 2ch comparison. Cheapo IPod mkt is what it is. And now it seems that big Wilsons etc are flying off the shelves. And Danielle has a residency at AE, and they do silly amounts of business.

Can the middle hold out? Will it survive?

Well right now, I have 11 sales that are in different stages, but all happening. Each one is at least $100K and a few $200K+

I have one or two $10K-$30K type deals and not sure if they will even happen.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Congrats. This thread is NOT a dig at these $100k+ sales. I opened it purely after reading Danielle's comments, and finding his observation fascinating.

Maybe as someone at the frontline of retailing, you can comment as to why these big ticket sales are happening more freely than your lower value transactions.

 

[Al M.]

Bob, I can't even post links. How can I be trusted with a tablet and 93 million tracks Lol?!

Well, Marc, by making that comment yourself you spared me from making it for you, as I had planned. Streaming is definitely not for you.

I am pretty bad with computers myself, even though I use them constantly at work, but apparently my computer illiteracy pales compared to yours.

I can only stand amazed how quick and well my 7 year old godson handles tablets. He was really good at it at age 3 (yes, three!). I am a complete dummy in comparison. Streaming is definitely not for me either .

Or maybe it is: I stream YouTube. But that's simple.

 

[Rhapsody]

Congrats. This thread is NOT a dig at these $100k+ sales. I opened it purely after reading Danielle's comments, and finding his observation fascinating.

Maybe as someone at the frontline of retailing, you can comment as to why these big ticket sales are happening more freely than your lower value transactions.

Pretty much all of the larger sales and most of them are full system sales and are sold at list price basically because all of these people have a LOT of $$$. Several of them live in $50M+ townhouses in NYC, actually four of them out of the 11 do.

I don't think ANY of them read audio forums. Most are VERY successful people that have a LOT going on. They all have one thing in common, they DO love to listen to music. They don't really care much about the equipment other than when choosing their system that will fit their environment.

Half of these people have designers/architects/assistants that are also involved.

 

[Al M.]

https://www.monoandstereo.com/2020/01/exclusive-interview-with-alsyvox.html

Thanks.

 

[Rhapsody]

Thanks.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Read the interview.

I suppose I agree with Danielle mostly if I consider who I interact with.

Not sure this needs to change. Maybe if I was invested in a domestic High End business the far view would be concerning. But I’m not.

Been plenty of threads and comments on prices and gear going after the higher dollar levels and this jives with that.

The empty middle budget idea is new. Or at least had not realized it.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Pretty much all of the larger sales and most of them are full system sales and are sold at list price basically because all of these people have a LOT of $$$. Several of them live in $50M+ townhouses in NYC, actually four of them out of the 11 do.

I don't think ANY of them read audio forums. Most are VERY successful people that have a LOT going on. They all have one thing in common, they DO love to listen to music. They don't really care much about the equipment other than when choosing their system that will fit their environment.

Half of these people have designers/architects/assistants that are also involved.

Bob, it's obvious who is buying yr $100k+ systems. I'm curious as to the dearth of sales in the middle. By yr own admission, those lower value transactions are harder to complete.

 

[Rhapsody]

Bob, it's obvious who is buying yr $100k+ systems. I'm curious as to the dearth of sales in the middle. By yr own admission, those lower value transactions are harder to complete.

The middle sales for me are few and far between, but that's me. Other dealers might be doing great in that area. I would not take my experience further than just one tiny data point.

Although last year I did sell almost 20 pairs of Magico A3s, which was a REAL exception.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Bob, yr brief summary of business seems to mirror Danielle's comment.

My Q is, is there a substantial change in the audio market? I guess expensive gear has always sold, as has budget gear. But in the past, the middle market was always healthy as well. I think the middle drove the market.

Are we now to assume budget and top top end are thriving, but the market has fallen out of the middle?

And if so, does this reflect good home reproduction of music at attainable levels just not meaning enough to enough of the middle classes. Or it does as much as ever to the middle, but it's so expensive to live (esp property prices/mortgages) that spending on hifi isn't being justified?

 

[Rhapsody]

Bob, yr brief summary of business seems to mirror Danielle's comment.

My Q is, is there a substantial change in the audio market? I guess expensive gear has always sold, as has budget gear. But in the past, the middle market was always healthy.

Are we now to assume budget and top top end are thriving, but the market has fallen out of the middle?

And if so, does this reflect good home reproduction of music at attainable levels just not meaning enough to enough of the middle classes. Or it does as much as ever to the middle, but it's so expensive to live (esp property prices/mortgages) that spending on hifi isn't being justified?

My opinion and nothing more than that is that MANY of the middle level audio buyers are "sort of" with different degrees of being audiophiles.

If they are audiophiles they already have one, two or more systems. Audiogon, for the most part is dead. It's REALLY hard to sell what you have to get something new.

NOT ENOUGH new younger people coming into the market, one reason is the prices have gotten crazy. You can get GREAT sound for not many $$$, but I know a lot of 20/30 and even 40 year olds and they have family and life responsibilities and they don't have this history in the audio world that a LOT of us on this forum do.

A lot of the middle level also got burned out with buying several systems and finding out that they usually end up with something different vs. better. I think a lot of people are just set now with what they have other than a new server, dac, cables etc.

That's just my two cents.