YG introduces the InVincible, 21" all-aluminum 6000W sub!
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This is an example of a the ultimate sub. Instead of multiple small woofers that aren’t necessarily tight and accurate, or have "fast" bass, which end up costing you lots more money, and lots of cables, and still won't have the capability of single digit frequncies because of their limited cone travel, buy a solution in one box:
https://www.deepseasound.com/products/mariana-24sc-24-subwoofer
https://www.deepseasound.com/products/mariana-24sc-24-subwoofer
- 24" subwoofer driver (assembled in America)
- 4,000 watt amplifier (sustained power) (assembled in America)
- 14-180 Hz +/- 0.75 db (strong 7 Hz typical in-room response)
- Solid enclosure overbuilt using high quality 3/4" Baltic Birch plywood (more info on FAQs page)
- Standard black oak, black maple, or black durable finish (other finishes optional)
- Option to have sub built as an end table with solid wood legs and solid wood top
- Round, flush inset grill with black grill cloth included
- 28" x 28" x 27"D
- 210 pounds
The above driver is capable of close to 5 inches of travel peak to peak, has 45 mm of linear travel one way insuring low distortion as the coil stays in the gap. I have been in the room with and watched a Laptop screen display 3hz content at 110db from a calibrated microphone at seating level. The key to this driver is that it is designed for audiophile quality bass, and it does it in a 28" cube.
JL use to use the term "tight" in their ads and doing comparisons with it, the JL is tubby sounding. How is it possible to get accurate bass out of a driver this big? An 80lb magnet that provides exceptional control due to its high motor force. Some of you may have read the white paper by the king of subwoofer design Dan Wiggins that I have linked before on this forum. If you haven't, it's all about inductance, simple physics. Or go out and buy a 8" Klipsch ht woofer and listen to how boomy a small woofer can be, as it has a magnet the size of a rats testicle on it. When you put a kick drum hit into it, it acts like a spring taking 10 oscillations to come back to a rest. A driver must have very low inductance or it is going to sound boomy, simple physics. Here is the paper that everyone should read if they haven't to become educated on subwoofer driver design, and fast bass:
http://web.archive.org/web/20040403205713/http://www.adireaudio.com/tech_papers/woofer_speed.htm
QUOTE from it-
"It turns out that transient response of a woofer is not a function of the moving mass, as is commonly espoused (one of the most infamous audio myths). In actuality, it is based upon the inductance of the driver. And the greater the inductance, the slower the driver - the lower the transient response."
A 28" cube with a built in 4K watt amp, for $4K that will give you depth and ambience to all your recordings. The famous kick drum on James Newton-Howard/ Sheffield Lp, or Flim & the BB's will be one of the tightest you will experience. Most importantly is the large amount of airwaves that it can launch with the large surface area of the cone. There's no substitute for displacement when it comes to subwoofers. This driver has the equivalent displacement of (6) regular 18" HT subwoofers. Would you rather have 6 boxes, or just one?
JL use to use the term "tight" in their ads and doing comparisons with it, the JL is tubby sounding. How is it possible to get accurate bass out of a driver this big? An 80lb magnet that provides exceptional control due to its high motor force. Some of you may have read the white paper by the king of subwoofer design Dan Wiggins that I have linked before on this forum. If you haven't, it's all about inductance, simple physics. Or go out and buy a 8" Klipsch ht woofer and listen to how boomy a small woofer can be, as it has a magnet the size of a rats testicle on it. When you put a kick drum hit into it, it acts like a spring taking 10 oscillations to come back to a rest. A driver must have very low inductance or it is going to sound boomy, simple physics. Here is the paper that everyone should read if they haven't to become educated on subwoofer driver design, and fast bass:
http://web.archive.org/web/20040403205713/http://www.adireaudio.com/tech_papers/woofer_speed.htm
QUOTE from it-
"It turns out that transient response of a woofer is not a function of the moving mass, as is commonly espoused (one of the most infamous audio myths). In actuality, it is based upon the inductance of the driver. And the greater the inductance, the slower the driver - the lower the transient response."
A 28" cube with a built in 4K watt amp, for $4K that will give you depth and ambience to all your recordings. The famous kick drum on James Newton-Howard/ Sheffield Lp, or Flim & the BB's will be one of the tightest you will experience. Most importantly is the large amount of airwaves that it can launch with the large surface area of the cone. There's no substitute for displacement when it comes to subwoofers. This driver has the equivalent displacement of (6) regular 18" HT subwoofers. Would you rather have 6 boxes, or just one?
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Quick question, do you have a glass slider or windows behind the curtains in your photo?
Not my room, I believe that was taken at AXPONA SHOW , so yes that would be in a typical hotel room.
I have trouble believing that this subwoofer is not about quantity of bass over quality of bass. I would bet the MDF box vibrates under load.
The Gryphon bass towers are rated at -3dB 16Hz. So, in theory, there is absolutely no need for any additional low-frequency reinforcement.
Yet, I have heard the subtle sonic benefit of adding subwoofers to a system with large woofer towers similar to the Gryphon bass towers.
We know of a Rockport Arrakis owner who uses stereo subwoofers.
I would not say “no” to a pair of Wilson Master Chronosonic subwoofers.
Thanks for your answer, Ron.
Where would you see the benefit of another pair of subwoofers to work the same frequency range?
A more even excitation of the room?
It's not made of mdf:
YOU REFER TO THESE AS HOME THEATER SUBWOOFERS, CAN THEY PLAY MUSIC TOO?
HOW MUCH DOES THE SUBWOOFER CABINET VIBRATE? HOW IS IT CONSTRUCTED?
The short answer is not much at all and you won't have to worry about the sub vibrating across the floor. The recessed sub design was selected so that we wouldn't see a huge rectangle/square of grill cloth as well as for strength. Starting from the outside, we have the outer front layer of 3/4" high-quality Baltic Birch plywood, which is veneered. Then we have 4 layers of the same plywood which act as spacers to handle the 5" of excursion the 24" driver is capable of producing. Then there are 2 more layers on which the sub mounts. The front super structure of 7 layers is then wrapped in 3/4" plywood on the sides, top and bottom to create an incredibly strong structure. There is another layer near the middle of the sub that parallels the front superstructure and braces the entire middle of the cabinet. Finally, there are 4 braces connecting the front to the middle to the back. The end result is a very strong cabinet that you could dance on, and yes, it has been verified to handle dancing by a grown man and his wife.
A second part of this question relates to panel resonance. Every panel resonates with vibrations and the trick is to make sure a panel's resonating frequency is outside of the usable frequency range of a speaker or subwoofer. Often it isn't a single panel that causes a problem but multiple panels with the same resonating frequency combining, which could result in audible vibrations. In this case, we were sure to use offset bracing to ensure no pair of panels would have similar resonating frequencies. Further, the panel's resonating frequencies of our enclosures are way above the audible range of subwoofers (greater than 200 Hz).
So while there may be some vibration, you could easily set a drink on the end table or side table sub and not have to worry (but please use a coaster). These are solid, high-quality enclosures that were meant to look good and perform even better. No need to worry about cabinet vibration.
I would bet my left testicle that if it had the name Wilson on the front, and the price tag said 40K dollars on it, that this would be the What's Best official subwoofer and the top 5 wealthiest people on here would have them in their systems.
Let's see if we can get the Theile-Small specifications of the coveted REL driver to see what specs it has for xmax and inductance, then we can calculate how many it would take to equal one, and see how well the cone is controlled in it.
Scepticism, doubt , bias, prejudice, subjectivity, lack of experience all come into play here because no one has actually heard it.
Like the old KEF ad, "Hearing is Believing ", everything else is masturbation.
Or, "Contentment is Destroyed by Comparison"
And now the question is - from where comes this additional information? What is meant by subharmonic in such statement?
Ron,
I will show that in theory you can need subwoofers.
The crossover of your towers is at 200 Hz, their position will be closely linked to the optimum position of the main speakers, not to bass performance. Particularly as you have no control on the towers phase one of the Gryphon system landmarks is phase alignment. Then you need subs to fill the bass response ...
But perhaps in practice you do not need them.
BTW, IMHO and experience XLF's sound better with subs in my room.
I have a lp that has a 10hz rumble that is felt at the beginning of a track on the Command Label from 1966. Back then Command would rent out Carnegie Hall after midnight for recording. There is a subway beneath the hall and this one track caught the rumble of the train just at the right time, cool stuff. I use to have a 24" Hartley driver in the attic firing down into the living room and my son came out from his room and asked what just happened as he could feel it back there.
Again if your audio system is strictly for recordings, and you don't listen to pipe organ recordings, then most people will be satisfied. But if your system also does home theater duty, then you absolutely need a sub that will play into the single digits. If I ever get the privilege of coming to audition your system, I WILL bottom out your woofers in your main speakers
It's made of plywood
Plywood is a material manufactured from thin layers or "plies" of wood veneer that are glued together with adjacent layers having their wood grain rotated up to 90 degrees to one another. It is an engineered wood from the family of manufactured boards which includes medium-density fibreboard (MDF) and particle board (chipboard).
Plywood is a material manufactured from thin layers or "plies" of wood veneer that are glued together with adjacent layers having their wood grain rotated up to 90 degrees to one another. It is an engineered wood from the family of manufactured boards which includes medium-density fibreboard (MDF) and particle board (chipboard).
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