Sme 3012 R

I know this old arm is good but I don’t know why David,Rockitman,Tang,Ron,Mike
Use or will use having top tonearm like Sat,EliteAxiom,Black Beauty,Durand

Why 3012 is so special?
I never had and I don’t understand
Only to know for my curiosity
Regards
Gian

 

Dear Peter,

Getting back to the real subject, where you & I have a different intent or interest is in the vs comparisons, that's not my approach. I judge equipment on their own merits or lack of and not in other the context. My suggestion was and is to try he 3012 for yourself, you don't need an identical position on the turntable to see what each arm is about, I guarantee you that they're quite dissimilar. Liking one tonearm more shouldn't be detrimental to the other unless you want it to be and if you like both you get to play one of your additional cartridges at will too. There's no downside for you to try I don't understand why you talk yourself out of doing it. The idea here is variety not competition.

The factory that builds the AS2000 is very expensive and always backed up with jobs it's not me that was too busy the factory is. They'll take a long time to do this and will charge you a hefty sum for design, CAD and setup time which isn't necessary given the simplicity of the object, that's why I suggested you use a small local shop to machine it.

david

Thanks David. That all makes sense. I will keep the idea alive and see what happens.

 

Not quite true Al.

Davey has discounted all of our ears because were all DDK fanboys, or we like colored sound, or the SME bayonet connection is inferior, or we didn't have the right turntable, etc. Peter discounts our ears because a random SME engineer said the V12 sounds better. Ack discounts our ears because 1980's wire is inferior to modern wire.

It's all crazy trolling and signals the eventual death of the forum.

Oh please!

Like i said before, anyone who has a different opinion to yours, is a troll...isn’t that right

 

Not quite true Al.

Davey has discounted all of our ears because were all DDK fanboys, or we like colored sound, or the SME bayonet connection is inferior, or we didn't have the right turntable, etc. Peter discounts our ears because a random SME engineer said the V12 sounds better. Ack discounts our ears because 1980's wire is inferior to modern wire.

It's all crazy trolling and signals the eventual death of the forum.

Jeffrey, How can I discount your ears when I have never met you, never listened to music with you, never heard your system and never heard the 3012R? Furthermore, you do not seem to have heard the V-12, so you can not share your opinion about how it sounds. If you have heard it, please tell us how you think the two arms sound different. I would not be interested in your opinion if I discounted your ears. Notice that no one is disputing that you like your arm, and I find your system pretty interesting and would like to hear it someday.

What do you mean that the SME engineer is some "random" guy. I find that pretty condescending, and he is not here to comment. My SME dealer suggested that I speak to this particular gentleman because he has worked for the company a long time and knows the arms. It is a small company with few employees. He said that all SME arms are good, but that they have evolved in an engineering sense, and he thinks the new arms are better. But he also said that some people might prefer the "sound" of the vintage arm in their systems. I don't find this at all controversial nor evidence that I discount your ears.

I think the forum is alive and well.

 

Nobody here has been annoyed that other people REALLY LIKE the 3012R arm. Nobody. The discussion was about something else entirely.

I have read the entire thread and I disagree. Yes, there have been some extreme statements back and forth but people are being asked to explain WHY this arm is “so good.” There is no definite answer. It is all in what people hear.

 

Oh please!

Like i said before, anyone who has a different opinion to yours, is a troll...isn’t that right

I am confused as to what your opinion is. I don’t recall you saying that you listened to the SME 3012R and thought the sound wasn’t as pleasing to you as the V12. Maybe I missed that since this has become a long thread.

 

Not quite true Al.

Davey has discounted all of our ears because were all DDK fanboys, or we like colored sound, or the SME bayonet connection is inferior, or we didn't have the right turntable, etc. Peter discounts our ears because a random SME engineer said the V12 sounds better. Ack discounts our ears because 1980's wire is inferior to modern wire.

It's all crazy trolling and signals the eventual death of the forum.

OK, I get it:

- there are no bayonet connection issues, structural or electric
- the wiring is fine
- SME don't know what they are talking about, it's all marketing BS
- the V12 cannot possibly be better
- the 3012R is the pinnacle of the SME design
- SME no longer employs as great engineers as back then; current engineers are random guys
- you are all ddk fanboys
- no one cares to compare the arm directly to anything else, apparently no one is curious, it is after all a superior arm
- there are trolls on the other side, but not on your side, since you all kinda agree on everything
- it's a great arm at a bargain price - get me a dozen
- skeptics need to go buy anything and everything the other side defends, in order to see if they should be skeptical in the first place
- zipcord is great, who cares about fine copper
- and it's all good and straightened out, everything your side said is correct, and again, you all kinda agree with each other

Glad we came to such a great conclusion

 

OK, I get it:

- there are no bayonet connection issues, structural or electric
- the wiring is fine
- SME don't know what they are talking about, it's all marketing BS
- the V12 cannot possibly be better
- the 3012R is the pinnacle of the SME design
- SME no longer employs as great engineers as back then; current engineers are random guys
- you are all ddk fanboys
- no one cares to compare the arm directly to anything else, apparently no one is curious, it is after all a superior arm
- there are trolls on the other side, but not on your side, since you all kinda agree on everything
- it's a great arm at a bargain price - get me a dozen
- skeptics need to go buy anything and everything the other side defends, in order to see if they should be skeptical in the first place
- zipcord is great, who cares about fine copper
- and it's all good and straightened out, everything your side said is correct, and again, you all kinda agree with each other

Glad we came to such a great conclusion

+1

LOL.

@dminches,
Maybe you missed it, but I used to own the SME 3012R.. moved on years ago.
I don’t own or have owned a SMEV12, but I am pretty sure that it would be more to my liking than the older SME arm. I have heard the SMEV12 on a few occasions, and I was quite impressed.

Nonetheless, I think all of these arms pale in comparison to the new Basis Superarms that I started a thread about.
Joel Durand is also coming out with a new arm..and that should also be on one’s short list if you are arm shopping right now.

 

I guess I am in the in the minority but I do not know how people can form an opinion about a tone arm unless it is mounted on their own turntable with a cartridge they are familiar with in their own system. If any of these are not in place I don’t see how one knows what role the tonearm is playing with respect to the sound.

 

Btw Ack, I really like zipcord...don’t knock it.

It works really well in my lamps, lol.

 

I guess I am in the in the minority but I do not know how people can form an opinion about a tone arm unless it is mounted on their own turntable with a cartridge they are familiar with in their own system. If any of these are not in place I don’t see how one knows what role the tonearm is playing with respect to the sound.

Ok, so having owned a SME3012R, that doesn’t count right?

 

Ok, so having owned a SME3012R, that doesn’t count right?

Why do you think I am talking about you? I wasn’t.

I was talking generically about people going to shows or going to an audio store and listening to a tone arm and making comments and forming an opinion. I don’t know how they know what is actually driving the sound they are hearing. Unless I hear something (other than speakers) in my system I am very limited in forming an opinion.

 

Business enterprises have to pump out new products when the old ones reach maturity or die out. I am sure SME uses their best engineering resources available to design their new products, new arms. However it would be naive to think that they produce the new arms just because they think they can make a better sounding arm. The main objective of a large established company to introduce a new product is to make money...period. One thing for sure their main objective is certainly different from ours. Very often new product with newer technologies and space age materials are better than old ones. But sometime they are just new products, not necessarily better than previous ones. You put two engineers of different era together I am sure each would favor the sound of his own design. I am not saying the new SME arms are inferior to the 3012R. I haven’t heard any of them beside the 3012R. But I am saying the logic that more advance technology will likely beat out the old one is not absolute. And an opinion of the engineer, the designer is as good as a data point that other users have commented in this thread because all of them are obviously biased one way or another.

For me I find the 3012R gives me great pleasure and enjoyment listening to music as much if not more than my other arms. I don’t need to do apple to apple arm comparison to confirm my hearing that. Yes, I like to compare gears just like Bonzo (sometime I even think he enjoys comparing experiences more than listening experiences.) Look at those gears I bought senselessly. They were results of my curiosity. I learned a lot from them. Until now I am not really much interested in knowing or able to write specifically how 3012R differs in sound to SAT or Axiom. I just hear really good sound, enjoy it and not listening analytically. I better leave the “hot potato” to Bonzo to compare when he visited me. He can say which one has more drive and more “flow” whatever that means...hehe .

Last but not least. If fanboys don’t mean anything sexually, then yes I am ddk’s fanboy...also Gian’s fanboy, MikeL’s fanboy, Christian’s fanboy, Ron’s fanboy, Shane’s fanboy and a few others.

Kind regards,
Tang

 

OK, I get it:

- there are no bayonet connection issues, structural or electric
- the wiring is fine
- SME don't know what they are talking about, it's all marketing BS
- the V12 cannot possibly be better
- the 3012R is the pinnacle of the SME design
- SME no longer employs as great engineers as back then; current engineers are random guys
- you are all ddk fanboys
- no one cares to compare the arm directly to anything else, apparently no one is curious, it is after all a superior arm
- there are trolls on the other side, but not on your side, since you all kinda agree on everything
- it's a great arm at a bargain price - get me a dozen
- skeptics need to go buy anything and everything the other side defends, in order to see if they should be skeptical in the first place
- zipcord is great, who cares about fine copper
- and it's all good and straightened out, everything your side said is correct, and again, you all kinda agree with each other

Glad we came to such a great conclusion

Btw Ack, I really like zipcord...don’t knock it.

It works really well in my lamps, lol.

I see you two morons are still making a$$es out of yourselves trolling with one idiot high fiving the other cretin, you two bring a new meaning to DUMB & DUMBER with nothing to contribute and you’re not even funny!

david

 

I see you two morons are still making a$$es out of yourselves trolling with one idiot high fiving the other cretin, you two bring a new meaning to DUMB & DUMBER with nothing to contribute and you’re not even funny!

david

No senior ddk, you are the one making moronic statements in all of this, with the language that you use. It's fascinating that people give you money and do business with trolls like yourself. Even more fascinating is the fact they call you a 'friend'. What I summarized above is all the crap that has been written in this thread

 

Ok, so having owned a SME3012R, that doesn’t count right?

It would count if you even had an inkling how to use it but as it stands from your comments, you were and still are clueless!

david

 

^^^^^Well said Mr. Tang !!!!

Back on topic please !

 

No ddk, you are the one making moronic statements in all of this, with the language that you use. It's fascinating that people give you money and do business with trolls like yourself.

My language and tone is geared and directed to you two no one else.

david

 

And who started this whole debate by asserting that the 3012R is the superior design without ever having heard the V-12 side by side? Who started this controversy, David? And who thus is "not even funny"?

Look, if you guys would not have made bold assertions without evidence, nobody would have said anything.

 

Business enterprises have to pump out new products when the old ones reach maturity or die out. I am sure SME uses their best engineering resources available to design their new products, new arms. However it would be naive to think that they produce the new arms just because they think they can make a better sounding arm. The main objective of a large established company to introduce a new product is to make money...period. One thing for sure their main objective is certainly different from ours. Very often new product with newer technologies and space age materials are better than old ones. But sometime they are just new products, not necessarily better than previous ones. You put two engineers of different era together I am sure each would favor the sound of his own design. I am not saying the new SME arms are inferior to the 3012R. I haven’t heard any of them beside the 3012R. But I am saying the logic that more advance technology will likely beat out the old one is not absolute. And an opinion of the engineer, the designer is as good as a data point that other users have commented in this thread because all of them are obviously biased one way or another.

For me I find the 3012R gives me great pleasure and enjoyment listening to music as much if not more than my other arms. I like to compare gears just like Bonzo (sometime I even think he enjoys comparing experiences more than listening experiences.) Look at those gears I bought senselessly. They were results of my curiosity. I learned a lot from them. Until now I am not really much interested in knowing or able to write specifically how 3012R differs in sound to SAT or Axiom. I just hear really good sound, enjoy it and not listening analytically. I better leave the job to Bonzo to compare when he visited me. He can say which one has more drive and more “flow” whatever that means...hehe .

Last but not least. If fanboys don’t mean anything sexually, then yes I am ddk’s fanboy...also Gian’s fanboy, MikeL’s fanboy, Christian’s fanboy, Ron’s fanboy, Shane’s fanboy and a few others.

Kind regards,
Tang

Respect ! Well said Tang. And next time you say you speak basic English, i’m calling you on that ****.

 

And who started this whole debate by asserting that the 3012R is the superior design without ever having heard the V-12 side by side? Who started this controversy, David? And who thus is "not even funny"?

Look, if you guys would not have made bold assertions without evidence, nobody would have said anything.

I don't know Al, show me where was this crime committed. So now people can't discuss a product that they like in a dedicated thread without getting trolled?

david