I said I would never buy another Turntable...Argh !!!

Hmm, I understand why Dave insisted on an inert shelf for the AS tt itself.
But why insist on an inert shelf for the motor as well?
Surely this mantra of no active or passive isolation is not going to be applied to electronics as well?
It looks like it is, and I'm just not getting it.
 
Marc, I think you are mixing things. The motor obviously sits on the top shelf right besides the TT. There is no question of suspending the motor alone, letting the TT sit rigid - this is asking for serious troubles. The lowest shelf, in turn, is occupied by the RIAA PSU and supposedly motor PSU. No platform there came from the fact that Tang wanted to keep the total rack height to the minimum and adding a platform would rise the total height by 10cm. This could make the TT operation less than comfortable. Given the choice: Platform under the RIAA or PSU's the answer was obvious, with PSU's landing on the rigid shelf. BTW, both us and another party did listening tests of this CLD shelf alone and it's actually very good! We will be offering it as a separate, cost-efficient and WEIGHT EFFICIENT ;) solution soon.

Cheers,
 
Sure Jarek, I meant the motor psu.
Got that explanation.
 
Maybe I exaggerated with "serious troubles" above, esp with such a stellar machine as AS2000 where you can probably remove the belt altogether and still play a whole LP side ;)
Cheers,
 
Jarek, that's a cool party trick.
Somehow I don't see Dave signing off on that policy LOL.
 
I put fresh grommets for you, they're absolutely essential. Looks like you over tightened the screws open them up the grommets shouldn't be squashed. Just tighten down to the point that the that there's no space between the screw head and the top of the arm base.

david

Thanks - just one point for those buying them from eBay - get genuine grommets, some sellers sell very hard similar replacements.
 
Thanks - just one point for those buying them from eBay - get genuine grommets, some sellers sell very hard similar replacements.

I need new ones. Micro, can you please put a link up of a seller that you've bought real grommets from.
 
Maybe I exaggerated with "serious troubles" above, esp with such a stellar machine as AS2000 where you can probably remove the belt altogether and still play a whole LP side ;)
Cheers,

To keep the party going all electronics are in the motor case and the small attached psu is in the back on the floor somewhere.

david
 
Marc, I think you are mixing things. The motor obviously sits on the top shelf right besides the TT. There is no question of suspending the motor alone, letting the TT sit rigid - this is asking for serious troubles. The lowest shelf, in turn, is occupied by the RIAA PSU and supposedly motor PSU. No platform there came from the fact that Tang wanted to keep the total rack height to the minimum and adding a platform would rise the total height by 10cm. This could make the TT operation less than comfortable. Given the choice: Platform under the RIAA or PSU's the answer was obvious, with PSU's landing on the rigid shelf. BTW, both us and another party did listening tests of this CLD shelf alone and it's actually very good! We will be offering it as a separate, cost-efficient and WEIGHT EFFICIENT ;) solution soon.

Cheers,

Jarek, I have wondered about the deleterious effect of a separate motor assembly being isolated on its own platform separate from the main platter housing and yet there are examples of the reverse/opposite condition where the platter is isolated because it sits on a non rigid, non fixed support. The AS2000 platter is isolated on its own bed of air (bearing) pneumatic isolation while being connected to the compliant belt to a motor pulley on a fixed/rigid support. Another case is that of the larger SME turntables where the motor assembly is on a lower fixed/rigid platform while the platter and upper chassis are suspended above it. In both cases, the motor position is fixed on a rigid support while the platter is free to move independently of the motor. The execution here must be what matters, not the principle of having both motor pulley and platter sitting on rigid/fixed supports. The important principle seems to be that the platter>stylus>arm interface is isolated from any potential noise from the motor and any structural vibration.

In the case of the AS2000, the air bearing means no bearing noise, but I think SME could have isolated the motor instead of the platter chassis, but they also wanted structural vibrations isolated from the platter which the AS2000 air bearing also does. The mass of the turntable base helps to isolate any arm on the AS2000 from structural vibrations and it must act as a sink for vibrations leaving the arm. I guess those rubber grommets help this too with the SME 2012R arms.

In principle, it seems that the arm pivot to spindle distance must be fixed for proper tracking while the motor pulley spindle to the platter bearing distance is fixed for proper speed control. Also important is to isolate the platter from motor noise and structural vibrations. In the case of the AS2000, the execution is such that both goals seem to be achieved.
 
Peter, I obviously exaggerated, having in mind a rather extreme motor play wrt to the platter so that it causes speed irregularities via the belt.

Cheers,
 
Just picked up two more vintage carts...Ortofon SPU-GTE (E for elliptical) and T for built in transformer. Also on the block from the same seller.... 1960's era Ortofon S 15-T. T for built in transformer. It is the elliptical stylus version. My other SPU-GT from Japan went back as only one channel worked.
 

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Three arms on now.

D3EB370C-D9B9-4619-9754-050E6DBC890C.jpg

Tang
 
Good lord! Think of the combinations and different sounds between all of those cartridges, arms, and tables. It looks like you are focusing mostly now on the newly arrived AS2000. Do you plan to switch cartridges in these three arms or have you settled on these particular combinations for complimentary reasons?

It is also a fascinating mix of arm designs. All pivoting and no linear trackers. Did you ever consider the Schroder or KLAudio pivoting linear tracking arms? The Axiom is by far the most user adjustable arm on your AS2000, while the old SME is meant to be set up and forgotten about. Do you make adjustments on the Axiom at the headshell or arm post, or do you leave it alone after the initial set up? Did your set up guy use something like the Smartracker universal alignment jig for each of these set ups, or did he use a proprietary device for each arm?

I'm curious about how you decide what to listen to at any particular time. Is it a quick decision based on your mood at the moment, or is it more reasoned for instance one combination for one particular genre of music, recording, etc? I remember taking my young kids to the famous Dillon's Candy Store in NYC once. Somehow your analog room reminds me of that. Congratulations Tang, and I'm sorry for all of the questions, but you have a laboratory for vinyl playback.
 
That looks quite amazing, Tang! So many combinations available!

(It is probably not wise to invite Bonzo there - unless you hire for yourself a live-in cartridge installer! :D)
 
That looks quite amazing, Tang! So many combinations available!

(It is probably not wise to invite Bonzo there - unless you hire for yourself a live-in cartridge installer! :D)

Lol.
 
Fabulous, Tang! Top manufacturers are probably nervously waiting for your decision of what tonearm will be selected for the fourth position!
 
Good lord! Think of the combinations and different sounds between all of those cartridges, arms, and tables. It looks like you are focusing mostly now on the newly arrived AS2000. Do you plan to switch cartridges in these three arms or have you settled on these particular combinations for complimentary reasons?

It is also a fascinating mix of arm designs. All pivoting and no linear trackers. Did you ever consider the Schroder or KLAudio pivoting linear tracking arms? The Axiom is by far the most user adjustable arm on your AS2000, while the old SME is meant to be set up and forgotten about. Do you make adjustments on the Axiom at the headshell or arm post, or do you leave it alone after the initial set up? Did your set up guy use something like the Smartracker universal alignment jig for each of these set ups, or did he use a proprietary device for each arm?

I'm curious about how you decide what to listen to at any particular time. Is it a quick decision based on your mood at the moment, or is it more reasoned for instance one combination for one particular genre of music, recording, etc? I remember taking my young kids to the famous Dillon's Candy Store in NYC once. Somehow your analog room reminds me of that. C
Good lord! Think of the combinations and different sounds between all of those cartridges, arms, and tables. It looks like you are focusing mostly now on the newly arrived AS2000. Do you plan to switch cartridges in these three arms or have you settled on these particular combinations for complimentary reasons?

It is also a fascinating mix of arm designs. All pivoting and no linear trackers. Did you ever consider the Schroder or KLAudio pivoting linear tracking arms? The Axiom is by far the most user adjustable arm on your AS2000, while the old SME is meant to be set up and forgotten about. Do you make adjustments on the Axiom at the headshell or arm post, or do you leave it alone after the initial set up? Did your set up guy use something like the Smartracker universal alignment jig for each of these set ups, or did he use a proprietary device for each arm?

I'm curious about how you decide what to listen to at any particular time. Is it a quick decision based on your mood at the moment, or is it more reasoned for instance one combination for one particular genre of music, recording, etc? I remember taking my young kids to the famous Dillon's Candy Store in NYC once. Somehow your analog room reminds me of that. Congratulations Tang, and I'm sorry for all of the questions, but you have a laboratory for vinyl playback.

Hi Peter,

Linear tracking?
- KLAudio no. The design looks too complicated. I like more simplistic design. Thales Statement yes I once considered it but didn’t happen. My tonearm guy has installed three Thales’s. Two Simplicity model. One Statement special 12” model. He told me the 12” is the one to go for.
Axiom.
- Adjustments are made mostly at arm post. I normally play with vtf and vta after my tonearm guy did initial setup. A Smartracker is used on Axiom. We first tried Axiom 12” that was on my AF1. But given the available SME type armbase that came with AS, the mounting position was too far for Axiom 12”. 12” Axiom is not really 12” because the arm pivot point is offset to the right making it more like a 10”. David’s regular armbase is made suitable for SME 12”. So I had to take the Axiom 14” out of my 927 and put on instead. Dietrich gave me a Smartracker with longer ruler for his 14”. I was in a meeting when my tone arm guy did the Axiom installation for me. He was gone when I came out. And I am finding the AtlasSL doesnt sound quite right from this setup at the moment. I know the AtlasSL sound. I didn’t have time to do any adjustment yeaterday. For SAT, it has its own jig that is very convenient to use.
How do I decide what to listen?
- I first pick cartridges. I choose cartridges that sound different enough or have different enough presentations. GFS, Opus1, AtlastSL, Coralstone (and probably ZYX Uni Premium) have different kind of presentation. They have their own charm. I never listened to ZYX. I bought ZYX plainly because David finds it the best sounding modern mc cart on the SME 3012R on AS. I want to hear the personal flavor of the Michelin star chef. Once I know exactly how each cart sounds, I pick music and choose corresponding cart depending on how I want to hear that piece of music.

Kind regards,
Tang
 

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