Tesla Roadster
- Thread starter Steve Williams
- Start date
I am sorry Dave but this argument is absurd. It is essentially arguing that there would be no coal fired power plants unless we had to charge Teslas. If the cars didn’t exist, would the coal fired power plants go away? Aren’t those same plants used to make ICE cars? Isn’t gas and diesel used to transport the materials necessary to build the plants, to move gas to the gas stations? Etc., etc. but electric cars are somehow the bad guys. This whole argument has been debunked over and over yet people still roll it out. The oil and gas industries get massive tax breaks. How is the tax rebate program any worse? The tax breaks for big oil go to the big boys, not the consumers, unlike with the electric car tax credit. And don’t even get me started with the auto industry bail out, which I supported. My lord, you haven’t even driven the car yet you pontificate that the batteries don’t last and that the cars are crap. It would be like me arguing that your cables are no better than lamp cord without trying them in my system. I have had an S for 6 months. I can accelerate rapidly over and over. This feature has helped us avoid several accidents already on I95 driving between NYC and DC. The car accelerates in heavy rain on wet roads and handles like a dream. You have a bias. I get that and I have one in favor of Tesla. In fact, we have an appointment to discuss adding solar panels to our roof and a power wall which will be used in small part to charge the S and a 3 which we hope to get in 2018. How is this worse than an ice car. Tesla is single handedly moving the car industry to electric. GM killed their first electric car despite the fact that their owners loved them. Imagine recalling and destroying a product that your consumers loved. I wonder why? Without a Tesla, how many electric cars would there be today? Probably none. Elon Musk is doing amazing things. Get over it.
How about eliminating the subsidies for big oil? Good for hard working tax payers as well. A lot more Tax dollars have been going to the benefit of big oil that for EVP tax credits. Geez...
Ron, I will be charging my S with solar hopefully next year, not exchanging anything at all. However, the power plants will still exist and ice cars will still need gas. We won’t.
Mike the majority of the world drive something without a thought to the numbers. You . I would venture to say are in the minority
You're thinking like a guy who buys and sells used cars which you do
The enjoyment that I get from driving my AMG daily is for me worth every penny. I never buy used and never give a darn about what something is going to resell for rather than getting the pleasure of enjoying it on a daily basis
I have no problem with the product and I'm sure it's a great car to drive on the road. No issue there. It's just not comparable to a ice performance car that was designed to be used on a track, the Tesla isn't designed for it and can only go fast for a relatively short period of time. Most production cars are not suitable for track use either, there's really only a few but they do include most of the cars in the new roadsters price class. Track vs road driving is very different and much harder on cars. It is a huge accomplishment for a road car to do 8.9s 1/4 though, that's pretty amazing. But, it's at the cost of using a huge battery and shortening it's lifespan, which is anything but green and part of the paradox of a $200k electric sports car.
As far as an e-car's contribution to CO2, it is indeed slightly worse, about 15%, vs a comparable ice car if recharged using coal, not much different with NG. With a solar system and batteries you trade-off the energy required to manufacture these products along with the fairly high environmental impacts of their production for less CO2 emissions. That might be a good trade off right now, but it's like changing from cigarettes to pipes, you didn't really quit using resources in a harmful way. That's unavoidable with today's tech and not really a criticism, it's reality. I've said many times e-cars are the future but the tech for both cars and electricity production needs to improve before they realize many of their claimed benefits.
Anyways, I really try not to be biased, but realistic. As a non-owner of a e-car but a supporter of renewable energy and lowering CO2 levels in the atmosphere I think I have a claim to be a lot less biased vs the Tesla owners...
I totally agree Joe. IMO the world hasn't caught up to Elon Musk yet so say what you wil,l Joe is correct in saying he is moving the car industry towards electric. It's reality. Everyone needs to get over it
I plan on putting in solar to my house in the coming year. My next door neighbor put it in 2 months ago and his electric bill dropped from $960/month to $96 last month. This is while i got a letter from San Diego Gas and Electric telling me it is a warning letter that my electricity consumption was 4X the baseline allowed. This is in a house where only my wife resides and maintenance electricity os running to the rest of the house. Just my wife and I.
It's letters like this that would make anyone crazy not to try solar or electric cars.
So like it or not it's here and IMO the roadster whatever anyone will say is well into the future. No one might drive it 650 miles or get even close to 250 mph but its the fastest production car in the world. Nothing comes close. Not my AMG or anyone's Porsche or Ferrari . I've accepted it and will drive my AMG into the ground and love driving it. When the time comes to consider new cars for the family an electric car is clearly in our future
Empirical Audio
Industry Expert
May of us live in areas of the country where renewable energy is mostly what we get. I live in an area where the power is 97% hydro. Others can put solar roof tiles on their roofs and charge their Power Wall during the day and then charge the car at night from the power wall. Californians are doing this already. Superchargers are currently powered from the grid, but there are plans for many of them to be upgraded with solar panels and battery storage, so there is no CO2 footprint.
Elon has thought of these things already.
Steve N.
Empirical Audio
Empirical Audio
Industry Expert
Just making the point that I don't treat my Tesla like a classic car, I drive it and I drive it forever. I typically own a car for 30 years. This is why I always bought Mercedes and Volvo (the good years).
Steve N.
Empirical Audio
Empirical Audio
Industry Expert
Here are some things that will lower the power bill:
-Replace all of your bulbs with LEDs
-Turn-off lights when you are not in the room
- Use the Programmable thermostat
-Seal all of the air leaks in doors/windows
-Add extra insulation to the attic
-Insulate under floors that are crawl spaces
-Replace single-glazed windows with double glazed
-Replace heat pump or air conditioner with high-efficiency one
-Upgrade kitchen appliances - induction cooktop, efficient frig, convection oven, newer microwave oven
-Install high-efficiency wood stove or fireplace insert
These things make sense even if you add solar.
Steve N.
Empirical Audio
1/4 mile times of 8.9 secs will scare most drivers , as a drag racer in a previous life , its friggen fast. My blown and injected big block Camaro was doing low 7's and it was a handful, for a production car to rip off 8's is amazing
Bruce B
WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
Bruce B
WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
He's an Engineer.... what do you expect!
I love his YouTube channel. He explains complicated things about cars on a layman's level.....
Bruce you're funny; not all engineers talk fast. :b
But yeah, he sounds like a young professional technological car scientist expert.
But yeah, he sounds like a young professional technological car scientist expert.
This' just in; educative:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-...ormance-targets-new-tesla-roadster-semi-truck
That article ^ is a 'musk' read, if you are a diligent investor doing your homework when departing your own hard earned money into a company. It's called smart investing.
"However, in its analysis of the feasibility of Musk’s claims, Bloomberg overlooked one crucial detail: Back in August, the company's veteran director of battery technology, Kurt Kelty, unexpectedly resigned to "explore new opportunities," abruptly ending a tenure with the company that stretched for more than a decade, and comes at a critical time for Elon Musk.
Kelty’s resignation – part of an exodus of high-level executives that is alarming in and of itself - hardly inspires confidence in Tesla’s ability to innovate. We’ve noticed a trend with Tesla: The more the company underdelivers, the more Musk overpromises."
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-...ormance-targets-new-tesla-roadster-semi-truck
That article ^ is a 'musk' read, if you are a diligent investor doing your homework when departing your own hard earned money into a company. It's called smart investing.
"However, in its analysis of the feasibility of Musk’s claims, Bloomberg overlooked one crucial detail: Back in August, the company's veteran director of battery technology, Kurt Kelty, unexpectedly resigned to "explore new opportunities," abruptly ending a tenure with the company that stretched for more than a decade, and comes at a critical time for Elon Musk.
Kelty’s resignation – part of an exodus of high-level executives that is alarming in and of itself - hardly inspires confidence in Tesla’s ability to innovate. We’ve noticed a trend with Tesla: The more the company underdelivers, the more Musk overpromises."
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Empirical Audio
Industry Expert
Yesterday on the news I saw that Chinese are buying up all of the Cobalt mines in Africa. There are some mines in the US. One mine is predicted to produce enough to supply the Tesla mega-battery factory in Sparks, NV.
Steve N.
Empirical Audio
Steve N.
Empirical Audio
China is making a smart move; Africa is the largest concentration of cobalt in the world.
"The copper belt in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Central African Republic and Zambia yields most of the cobalt mined worldwide. The DRC alone accounted for more than 50% of 2016 world production (123,000 tonnes), according to Natural Resources Canada.
In 2005, the copper deposits in the Katanga Province (former Shaba province) of the Democratic Republic of the Congo were the top producer of cobalt with almost 40% world share, reports the British Geological Survey. By 2015, DRC supplied 60% of the world production of 32,000 tons at prices of $20,000 to $26,000 per ton, including artisanal mining which supplied 10 to 25%. The political situation in the Congo influences the price of cobalt significantly.
The Mukondo Mountain project, operated by the Central African Mining and Exploration Company (CAMEC) in Katanga, may be the richest cobalt reserve in the world. It is estimated able to produce about one third of total global production of cobalt in 2008. In July 2009 CAMEC announced a long-term agreement under which CAMEC would deliver its entire annual production of cobalt concentrate from Mukondo Mountain to Zhejiang Galico Cobalt & Nickel Materials of China."
_____
"Human rights activists had previously alleged, and on February 28, 2017 investigative journalism reported confirmation, that child labor is used in a portion of the worldwide supply of cobalt sourced from African artisanal mines. This revelation prompted cell phone maker Apple Inc., on March 3, 2017, to stop buying the ore from suppliers such as Zhejiang Huayou Cobalt who source from artisanal mines in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, and begin using only suppliers that are verified to meet its workplace standards. In 2017, some exploration companies were planning to survey old silver and cobalt mines in the area of Cobalt, Ontario where significant deposits are believed to lie.
The United States Geological Survey estimates world reserves at 7,100,000 metric tons."
"The copper belt in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Central African Republic and Zambia yields most of the cobalt mined worldwide. The DRC alone accounted for more than 50% of 2016 world production (123,000 tonnes), according to Natural Resources Canada.
In 2005, the copper deposits in the Katanga Province (former Shaba province) of the Democratic Republic of the Congo were the top producer of cobalt with almost 40% world share, reports the British Geological Survey. By 2015, DRC supplied 60% of the world production of 32,000 tons at prices of $20,000 to $26,000 per ton, including artisanal mining which supplied 10 to 25%. The political situation in the Congo influences the price of cobalt significantly.
The Mukondo Mountain project, operated by the Central African Mining and Exploration Company (CAMEC) in Katanga, may be the richest cobalt reserve in the world. It is estimated able to produce about one third of total global production of cobalt in 2008. In July 2009 CAMEC announced a long-term agreement under which CAMEC would deliver its entire annual production of cobalt concentrate from Mukondo Mountain to Zhejiang Galico Cobalt & Nickel Materials of China."
_____
"Human rights activists had previously alleged, and on February 28, 2017 investigative journalism reported confirmation, that child labor is used in a portion of the worldwide supply of cobalt sourced from African artisanal mines. This revelation prompted cell phone maker Apple Inc., on March 3, 2017, to stop buying the ore from suppliers such as Zhejiang Huayou Cobalt who source from artisanal mines in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, and begin using only suppliers that are verified to meet its workplace standards. In 2017, some exploration companies were planning to survey old silver and cobalt mines in the area of Cobalt, Ontario where significant deposits are believed to lie.
The United States Geological Survey estimates world reserves at 7,100,000 metric tons."
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