Sound Galleries SGM 2015

Stereophonic

Well-Known Member
Jun 9, 2013
891
672
410
Spain
Very interesting thread because i'm looking for a reference music server.
I'm doubting between Aurender W20 and SGM 2015, but so many technical data and filters options overwhelm me.
I think if i take the SGM way i will be on a never ending sound options that i really don't understand.
The Aurender way seems more stable and user friendly.
At the end, with a SQ perspective, they are more close than far away?
 

asiufy

Industry Expert/VIP Donor
Jul 8, 2011
3,711
723
1,200
San Diego, CA
almaaudio.com
Stereophonic,

The SGM is not only a product, as it comes complete with the installation service :) And that service includes determining the best options for YOUR setup. So, in practice, you won't have to deal with the configurations at all. All you'll see is Roon, and everything else will be taken of, out of sight.
Also, updates and eventual configuration changes can be carried remotely by the SGM staff, so again, you won't need to do anything to enjoy eventual sound quality improvements!
Of course, the option *IS* there for those techy enough to want to mess with the settings themselves. But, as a complete package, you don't HAVE to deal with the intricacies.
I haven't compared the W20 to the SGM yet, but I hope to in the near future!


cheers,
alex
 

Stereophonic

Well-Known Member
Jun 9, 2013
891
672
410
Spain
Hi Alex.
Your answer is very welcome !!!
Is it true that with the SGM purchase do you have a Roon Lifetime Membership account?
Regards.
 

hifial

New Member
Apr 7, 2013
91
0
0
Hi Alex.
Your answer is very welcome !!!
Is it true that with the SGM purchase do you have a Roon Lifetime Membership account?
Regards.

Yes, you get a lifetime Roon subscription and an HQ Player one. Also, if you already have one of or both of them you will get a "credit" for what you have.
 

Taiko Audio

Industry Expert
Feb 10, 2017
4,305
13,402
1,925
The Netherlands
taikoaudio.com
It's my understanding that HQPlayer only functions in real time processing during file playback and does not provide an option to save the resulting output file.

This is correct, although HQplayer has been on the market for about 10 years, the author, Jussi Laako, told me he spend about twice that amount of time developing and perfecting his algorithms. This is about protecting his intellectual property.
 

Taiko Audio

Industry Expert
Feb 10, 2017
4,305
13,402
1,925
The Netherlands
taikoaudio.com
Thats not what I asked or am I misguided

If both rebook and DSD are converted to DXD via HQP why wouldn't the files of the same song sound the same

And what happened to last year's mantra that listening "native" sounds the best

A simple question with a not so simple answer. I will have a go at it and try keeping it readable.

First a few definitions, source Wikipedia.

1) An analog-to-digital converter (ADC, A/D, A–D, or A-to-D) is a system that converts an analog signal, such as a sound picked up by a microphone or light entering a digital camera, into a digital signal. The difference between an input value and its quantized value (such as round-off error) is referred to as quantization error. A device or algorithmic function that performs quantization is called a quantizer. An analog-to-digital converter is an example of a quantizer.
2) The conversion involves quantization of the input, so it necessarily introduces a small amount of error. Furthermore, instead of continuously performing the conversion, an ADC does the conversion periodically, sampling the input. The result is a sequence of digital values that have been converted from a continuous-time and continuous-amplitude analog signal to a discrete-time and discrete-amplitude digital signal.
3) An ADC is defined by its bandwidth and its signal-to-noise ratio. The bandwidth of an ADC is characterized primarily by its sampling rate. The dynamic range of an ADC is influenced by many factors, including the resolution, linearity and accuracy (how well the quantization levels match the true analog signal), aliasing and jitter.
5) The resolution of the converter indicates the number of discrete values it can produce over the range of analog values. The resolution determines the magnitude of the quantization error and therefore determines the maximum possible average signal to noise ratio for an ideal ADC without the use of oversampling.
6) In ADCs, performance can usually be improved using dither. This is a very small amount of random noise (white noise), which is added to the input before conversion. It extends the effective range of signals that the ADC can convert, at the expense of a slight increase in noise – effectively the quantization error is diffused across a series of noise values which is far less objectionable than a hard cutoff. An audio signal of very low level (with respect to the bit depth of the ADC) sampled without dither sounds extremely distorted and unpleasant. Without dither the low level may cause the least significant bit to "stick" at 0 or 1. With dithering, the true level of the audio may be calculated by averaging the actual quantized sample with a series of other samples [the dither] that are recorded over time.
7) As per the Nyquist–Shannon sampling theorem, a digital-to-analogue converter (DAC) can reconstruct the original signal from the sampled data provided that its bandwidth meets certain requirements (e.g., a baseband signal with bandwidth less than the Nyquist frequency). Digital sampling introduces quantization error that manifests as low-level noise added to the reconstructed signal.
8) Noise shaping works by putting the quantization error in a feedback loop. Any feedback loop functions as a filter, so by creating a feedback loop for the error itself, the error can be filtered as desired.


Going from these definitions you can see that error's are introduced, some unavoidable like quantization error, some deliberate like dither. This happens twice, in different forms, on both the A to D and D to A conversion. These sum to a total X amount of error or deviation from the original source.

You could see why increasing bandwidth and signal-to-noise ratio on the A to D side can result in lower error rates / noise and therefor deviation from the original analogue master independently on what you do on the D to A side.

HQplayer has an array of options to deal with errors and noise up to the Ultimate for me which is upsampling to DSD which is where digital and analogue meet in the middle by using the same waveform.
 

Blue58

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2013
898
685
1,155
London, UK
It's Easter and the Easter Bunny, I'm looking at you Ed :), delivered another serious increase in sound quality from the SGM2015 simply by reconfiguring HQPlayer to maximise my particular systems strengths and appeal to my musical preferences.
This is the wonder of both the SGM2015 and HQPlayer in that it can be tailored to not only a particular Dac but to the whole system and to your own listening preferences.

All it took was a few moments for Ed (eurodriver) to log in to the SGM2015 via TeamViewer, change a couple of settings and then let me audition the effect it had on the overall performance. A further change to just one setting increased the drive and attack ever so slightly that it elevated music to the point where it speaks to me in an utterly realistic and live manner. The most bold, dynamic, 3D soundstage and realism I've heard from my system. My audio buddy Spiritofmusic is gonna give up on analogue after hearing this.

Now, the strange development is the T+A Dac8DSD is now running on its DSD128 setting and not the previous DSD512 setting. Why, because the latest Poly Sinc XTR filter is a monster filter requiring much more processing power than the less intensive p/s XTR-2s filter and the combination sounds so much better than the latter filter at DSD512.

This again shows that we should not get hung up on the numbers or resolution game. It really doesn't matter whether you use pcm through a Aqua Formula or DSD through a T+A or 512 through a Lampi GG, what matters is the end result and to have a device that is SO customisable to your own setup and hearing is pure genius.

And all this done by online customer service. Who said computer audio was complicated, nah!

A huge Easter thank you to Ed and the team and I wish you all success at Munich.

Blue58

Ps. I'm told a Herzan platform should be my next investment.
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
14,625
5,434
1,278
E. England
Give up on analog?
That's not the evil Easter Bunny talking, that bunny in Donnie Darko forseeing my future?
I'll believe it when it happens
Barry, just like all the uber pro-analog guys who won't give new cutting edge digital like yr SGM rig a chance, we have the uber pro-digital guys like you who for the sake of pops and clicks have dismissed analog from yr mind
I'm straddling this wooden picket fence getting splinters in my arse!

But yes, I've been more and more convinced about the pros w no cons sound of yr SGM evolution, and am really curious to hear the new level you've got to

And you've given me an idea for a thread, music and audio upgrades all w'out leaving yr seat
Just WHAT is the fun in that?
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
12,595
11,685
4,410
It's Easter and the Easter Bunny, I'm looking at you Ed :), delivered another serious increase in sound quality from the SGM2015 simply by reconfiguring HQPlayer to maximise my particular systems strengths and appeal to my musical preferences.
This is the wonder of both the SGM2015 and HQPlayer in that it can be tailored to not only a particular Dac but to the whole system and to your own listening preferences.

All it took was a few moments for Ed (eurodriver) to log in to the SGM2015 via TeamViewer, change a couple of settings and then let me audition the effect it had on the overall performance. A further change to just one setting increased the drive and attack ever so slightly that it elevated music to the point where it speaks to me in an utterly realistic and live manner. The most bold, dynamic, 3D soundstage and realism I've heard from my system. My audio buddy Spiritofmusic is gonna give up on analogue after hearing this.

Now, the strange development is the T+A Dac8DSD is now running on its DSD128 setting and not the previous DSD512 setting. Why, because the latest Poly Sinc XTR filter is a monster filter requiring much more processing power than the less intensive p/s XTR-2s filter and the combination sounds so much better than the latter filter at DSD512.

This again shows that we should not get hung up on the numbers or resolution game. It really doesn't matter whether you use pcm through a Aqua Formula or DSD through a T+A or 512 through a Lampi GG, what matters is the end result and to have a device that is SO customisable to your own setup and hearing is pure genius.

And all this done by online customer service. Who said computer audio was complicated, nah!

A huge Easter thank you to Ed and the team and I wish you all success at Munich.

Blue58

Ps. I'm told a Herzan platform should be my next investment.

+1

yes, yes, and yes.

Ed was here last week and I have to echo all you have said. Ed and Emile have taken things up another notch, with both the possibilities with HQ Player 3.16 with the Poly Sinc XTR filter, but then other tweaks to the SGM OS uncovered by the gains with the filter. so it's a ratcheting upward to higher performance. one step allowing the vision for the next step. I liken it to my room tuning experience; where as I was able to reduce distortion from reflections, other possibilities for other adjustments emerged. who knows what is behind the next door when you cannot see the door? the SGM team sees more doors to open.

and the Herzan is another very clear step to see what is really happening. yes......that is likely a larger step than even a dac upgrade as far as performance.
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
14,625
5,434
1,278
E. England
Mike, I'm getting exposure at Barry to SGM 1-2x per mnth
As a died in the wool analog man, it's by far the only digital product to make me q my devotion to lps
So much so, that a budget I am considering ploughing into a final tt, prob Kuzma Stabi M w 12" or 14" 4 Point, may very well go into SGM/Dac8
Hearing these recent changes soon may cement this change of direction
I am REALLY conflicted about this
 
Last edited:

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
12,595
11,685
4,410
Mike, I'm getting exposure at Barry to SGM 1-2x per wk
As a died in the wool analog man, it's by far the only digital product to make me q my devotion to lps
So much so, that a budget I am considering ploughing into a final tt, prob Kuzma Stabi M w 12" or 14" 4 Point, may very well go into SGM/Dac8
Hearing these recent changes soon may cement this change of direction
I am REALLY conflicted about this

Marc, I think you enjoy being in that 'conflicted state'.:D

enjoy the path......
 
Last edited:

MadFloyd

Member Sponsor
May 30, 2010
3,079
774
1,700
Mass
Herzan under the DAC or SGM?
 

EuroDriver

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2015
927
2,486
450
Monaco
Herzan under the DAC or SGM?

At Mike's just the DAC and Preamp sitting on the Herzan so far. However we have been doing measurements and testing at the Taiko workshop in Hengelo, Holland of the SGM sitting on active anti-vibration.

In Hengelo, which is a light industrial area, there is a definite sonic benefit to having the SGM on active anti-vibration. In Mike's much more vibration quiet sound room, there is still a surprising magnitude of vibrational energy, so we are expecting there will be a significant benefit as well. The woofers and speakers are pumping a lot of mechanical vibration in to the structure of the room, and we can see it in the rack and equipment. Active anti vibration reduces this significantly.

Taiko has friends in Holland who are leaders in the field of passive high audio frequency resonance management. So we expect the combination of the two technologies will deliver a result exciting for audiophiles looking to squeeze the best out of their gear
 

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
20,807
4,700
2,790
Portugal
At Mike's just the DAC and Preamp sitting on the Herzan so far. However we have been doing measurements and testing at the Taiko workshop in Hengelo, Holland of the SGM sitting on active anti-vibration.

In Hengelo, which is a light industrial area, there is a definite sonic benefit to having the SGM on active anti-vibration. In Mike's much more vibration quiet sound room, there is still a surprising magnitude of vibrational energy, so we are expecting there will be a significant benefit as well. The woofers and speakers are pumping a lot of mechanical vibration in to the structure of the room, and we can see it in the rack and equipment. Active anti vibration reduces this significantly.

Taiko has friends in Holland who are leaders in the field of passive high audio frequency resonance management. So we expect the combination of the two technologies will deliver a result exciting for audiophiles looking to squeeze the best out of their gear

What is the bandwidth that we must consider when isolating the SGM?
 

EuroDriver

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2015
927
2,486
450
Monaco
What is the bandwidth that we must consider when isolating the SGM?

The frequency spectrum over which vibration management is sonically audible applies to both servers, and DAC's. Analog gear and power distribution is also very sensitive to vibrations.

So far we everything we have been able to implement in the way of vibration management at the low frequency end, mid frequency, and high frequency end has been audibly effective even though the extreme frequencies are beyond range of human hearing (test tones)
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
14,625
5,434
1,278
E. England
Mike, enjoying being conflicted - isn't this the lot of the audiophile?
Unlike you, I cannot easily (at all) stretch to SGM PLUS final destination analog rig like yr NVS
Luckily I have the cart/phono I don't need to look past (Soundsmith Straingauge, soon to have bespoke dual mono psus)
But to buy a eg Kuzma Stabi M w 4 Point means no SGM/Dac8, and vice versa
The streaming thing really doesn't come naturally to me, being a resolutely physical media man
In my avowed musical interests of prog and fusion, streaming hasn't really dented the cd market, w so many elaborate cd/Blu Ray box sets, collectables and uber uber fanboi packages like King Crimson 25 cd box sets, Steve Wilson classic prog remaster 3-4cd collections
I have to balance an uber analog upgrade that gets me an instant uplift in 2k lps, v an SGM/dac8 purchase that after ripping my cd collection gets me an uplift in 1k cds and universe of new music and likely instant classical music collection for Tidal sub v no move to streaming or tt upstick and the $15-20k spent on 5k s/h lps and cds, w a simple sub-$1k network player option like Oppo Sonica to keep me abreast of new music
I really cannot easily pull these arguments apart to get to the one which is most compelling
 

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
20,807
4,700
2,790
Portugal
The frequency spectrum over which vibration management is sonically audible applies to both servers, and DAC's. Analog gear and power distribution is also very sensitive to vibrations.

So far we everything we have been able to implement in the way of vibration management at the low frequency end, mid frequency, and high frequency end has been audibly effective even though the extreme frequencies are beyond range of human hearing (test tones)

In what subjective areas are mostly found the benefits of the vibration management (should we call it isolation, since you are reporting on an active device)? Are the improvements in the DAC similar to those in the SGM or in different areas?
 

EuroDriver

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2015
927
2,486
450
Monaco
In what subjective areas are mostly found the benefits of the vibration management (should we call it isolation, since you are reporting on an active device)? Are the improvements in the DAC similar to those in the SGM or in different areas?

Low frequency vibration reduction improves high and medium frequency as well as bass clarity. Mid and High frequency resonance management helps tonality, and tonal density. You may have noticed that quite a few manufacturers are using a combination of copper and aluminum in their chassis. There are also some non-metallic materials and composites with good mechanical sonic properties.

What Taiko is working on solutions which address low frequency vibration actively, and mid range to high frequency resonance management passively
 

hifial

New Member
Apr 7, 2013
91
0
0
LA Audio Show June 2-4

Just a heads up that I will be at the LA Audio Show as an Ambassador for Sound Galleries and Taiko Audio.

At times I will be in the Alma Audio room but I will also be floating around the show. I will be wearing a Polo shirt with the Sound Galleries and Taiko Audio logos on it so I will not be to hard to spot. If you see me please say hello as I am looking foreword to meeting other WBF posters. Also there are plans a foot and if all goes well we will have another SGM in a second room at the LAAS.
 

VPN

VIP/Donor
Dec 28, 2013
369
180
318
Hello,

Now that the new intel i9 processor, with 10 to 18 cores (US$1000 to US$2000) is out, I wonder:

a) When should we expect a SGM with Intel i9 processor?

b) Will it be possible to upgrade existing SGM 2015 to Intel I9?

Cheers,

VPN
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing