Reviewer rooms

[bonzo75]

http://www.hifinews.co.uk/news/article/meet-the-team;-ken-kessler/9827

http://www.hifinews.co.uk/news/article/meet-the-team;-paul-miller/9952

http://gizmodo.com/5213042/why-we-need-audiophiles

Borrowed from Mike B's thread on Audioshark

http://www.audioshark.org/showthread.php?t=11511&p=196042&viewfull=1#post196042

John Bamford's room is good on the hifi news site.

 

[Bruce B]

Don't know if I've ever heard/seen a reviewer room that was an optimal purpose built room. Mostly what I've seen are asymmetrical living areas that are cluttered.

The best room I've ever heard is the one built by Winston Ma. I doubt any room can compete with that one.

 

[JackD201]

There are so many variables involved in creating a space for critical listening. Many times it is tempting to judge a room by looking at pictures. Unfortunately, pictures don't give us enough information on dimensions, geometry, volume, absorption coefficients of surfaces, construction of boundaries, that's just scratching the surface. I'm not saying these guys have great or poor rooms only that much more information is needed to make assumptions that might get us in the ballpark. There's the human factor too. Placement, power, individual targets, utility. Not to mention the ability to adjust and filter out anomalies the same way it is proven medically that humans do so, albeit not completely, with gradual degradation of hearing over time. There's so much we just don't see, often times purposely.

Take Mike L. He's made many changes from his original Rives designed room. Many of these changes are hidden from view. Fabrics, sealing of bass traps. Same in my room. Change of false walls from Marine ply to gypsum, wood to metal studs, clips, rock wool to fiberglass. Helmholtz tuning changes, all hidden from view. It's always great to make rooms look pretty but pretty has got to work and truth be told, ugly can work too.

 

[bonzo75]

You can't review big speakers in small rooms

 

[KeithR]

You can't review big speakers in small rooms

Fremer does!

 

[asiufy]

I disagree. You can. That doesn't mean you should, but sure you can...

 

[16hz lover]

You can't review big speakers in small rooms

Please explain why not.
Who determines what dimensions are considered small?
Who determines what dimensions make a speaker big?

 

[Al M.]

You can't review big speakers in small rooms

Agreed. Or: you can, but you shouldn't

 

[flyer]

You can't review big speakers in small rooms

I am to agree, having a smallish room myself (22m² with 2.45 m ceiling), that it is extremely difficult to replace volume by anything else! Real volume is almost irreplacable.

However, if that room is well treated, i.e. the low end standing waves are taken out of the equation (i.e. solved by some treatment) amonst other things, I like to think it is better to have a small treated room than a big untreated one with those typical effects of standing waves, flutter echo, windows at the most inconvenient places,...

Large speakers is difficult to define effectively. I think the positioning requirements of speakers are most important. If you have speakers that need a lot of space behind as otherwise they cannot blossom, then with a small room, they will be difficult to position except if you want to sit as close to them as if they were monitors, causing potentially other (integration/timing) issues.

Not an easy subject.

 

[bonzo75]

I am to agree, having a smallish room myself (22m² with 2.45 m ceiling), that it is extremely difficult to replace volume by anything else! Real volume is almost irreplacable.

However, if that room is well treated, i.e. the low end standing waves are taken out of the equation (i.e. solved by some treatment) amonst other things, I like to think it is better to have a small treated room than a big untreated one with those typical effects of standing waves, flutter echo, windows at the most inconvenient places,...

Large speakers is difficult to define effectively. I think the positioning requirements of speakers are most important. If you have speakers that need a lot of space behind as otherwise they cannot blossom, then with a small room, they will be difficult to position except if you want to sit as close to them as if they were monitors, causing potentially other (integration/timing) issues.

Not an easy subject.

Well yes, I am not saying big rooms should be untreated.

You have a room better than most of them, if not all.

Here is another link Mike posted at AS. Haven't been able to read yet

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/138477-the-listening-rooms-of-stereophile-tas/

 

[DaveyF]

Here's the thing of it...iMHO, the room is the most important component of the whole system. So, IF we agree with that... when one reads a reviewer of any type of gear..and particularly speakers, what is the reviewer actually listening to ( and more importantly commenting on), his room/speaker/gear interaction, or the true sound of the speaker itself?? Add into that listening bias that all reviewers elicit ( and probably all of us as well) ( can we say Art Dudley here, LOL) and we have a recipe for another discussion!

 

[bonzo75]

Agreed. Or: you can, but you shouldn't

Your room size and speaker ratio/placement will beat all these

 

[Joe Whip]

Here's the thing of it...iMHO, the room is the most important component of the whole system. So, IF we agree with that... when one reads a reviewer of any type of gear..and particularly speakers, what is the reviewer actually listening to ( and more importantly commenting on), his room/speaker/gear interaction, or the true sound of the speaker itself?? Add into that listening bias that all reviewers elicit ( and probably all of us as well) ( can we say Art Dudley here, LOL) and we have a recipe for another discussion!

Unless you specifically design the room to take the room out of play, the room is a component in that it effects the sound. Hard to make definitive judgements about what a component, especially speakers sound like due to the effect of the room. I have been in only one room outside a recording studio where the effect of the room has been negated. This room should be a reviewer's dream but few would go to this level.

 

[flyer]

Well yes, I am not saying big rooms should be untreated.

You have a room better than most of them, if not all.

Here is another link Mike posted at AS. Haven't been able to read yet

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/138477-the-listening-rooms-of-stereophile-tas/

Thanks for the compliment on my room and for the link you sent. I am flabbergasted seeing those rooms...

I should never excuse myself anymore for my modestly sized room...

 

[PeterA]

I just had a chance to read about Kessler's room in the first link. Got to love a 12' X 18' room with LPs all around the back walls and five (5)! turntables. Of particular interest to me are the two SME turntables, Model 30 AND Model 30/12. The guy knows how to live.

I do wonder though about the imaging in the room with the equipment racks squeezed between, and in the same plane as, the two Wilson speakers. It is just contrary to what I have always thought was good practice. And that collection of cartridges piled up on the soft grooved platter surface of the SME 30 just makes me cringe. That surface is extremely easy to scratch.

Thanks for posting these links. They make for fun browsing.

 

[flyer]

On the importance of acoustics: Here is a room with very good sizes but with a standing wave in the bass that is so overwhelming that it killed a lot of the music(ality) all the way into the midrange.

Some helmholtz resonators were put in place, reducing that standing wave to become hardly noticeable (it is still there a bit but much attenuated), the sound of the system has changed/improved big time!!

 

[Diapason]

Agreed with everything so far, but one thing I'll say is that, sonically speaking, clutter is often a good thing. A lot of these guys have that part nailed.

Still, having heard DRASTICALLY different results with the same system in different rooms over the years, I try to remind myself that other people's opinions on speakers should be viewed merely as entertainment.

 

[flyer]

Agreed with everything so far, but one thing I'll say is that, sonically speaking, clutter is often a good thing. A lot of these guys have that part nailed.

Still, having heard DRASTICALLY different results with the same system in different rooms over the years, I try to remind myself that other people's opinions on speakers should be viewed merely as entertainment.

+1

 

[microstrip]

(...) Still, having heard DRASTICALLY different results with the same system in different rooms over the years, I try to remind myself that other people's opinions on speakers should be viewed merely as entertainment.

Entertainment and information, if you know well the preferences and style of the person and have some common anchors.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

my experience as far as speaker performance and the room is that everything matters. the smallest things can make significant differences. the larger and more dynamic the speaker and room are the more is required to harness it. and unless you attack literally everything you won't know what the room and speakers can accomplish.

so when I see a cluttered room for me it's not that it won't sound good, it's that the actual fine tuning of the room and speakers is likely not to have occurred. so it's all left to chance and so the feedback on the speaker is, like has been said, for entertainment purposes only.

a neat, tidy and relatively organized room is no proof of anything either. god knows my room was neat and tidy and sucked in many ways for years. so it's a combination of things including credibility over time from the person/reviewer.