Vinyl obsession

[awsmone]

Yes, the speakers, turntable, tonearm, cartridge, cables, electrical infrastructure and room treatment will be new. I will be "hatching" a complete system, as Mike L says.

But I am afraid I do not understand your question.

Sorry

How are you coping ? with the equipment.....gone...

 

[awsmone]

Considering the hobby, how are you doping?

Bazzzzingaaaa!

 

[FrantzM]

It is. Where sound quality goes. Some things are opinions and preferences, this is not. And yes, I have been punching myself like Ed Norton in fight club to resist the expense on vinyl

An absolute then .. We finally found one in Audio. We must praise this day. .

@XV-1

Of course I understood you listen to music first and by that I don't mean that you listen to CD at all. Sut since many if not most music these days, as pointed by microstrip, is digitally manipulated you must perforce listen to digital knowingly or unknowingly. I do accept it as a fact that the process of going through a vinyl playback production and reproduction chain is important to you and or confer the music, sonic superiority to your ears.. that is fine but you do listen to digital.

 

[XV-1]

An absolute then .. We finally found one in Audio. We must praise this day. .

@XV-1

Of course I understood you listen to music first and by that I don't mean that you listen to CD at all. Sut since many if not most music these days, as pointed by microstrip, is digitally manipulated you must perforce listen to digital knowingly or unknowingly. I do accept it as a fact that the process of going through a vinyl playback production and reproduction chain is important to you and or confer the music, sonic superiority to your ears.. that is fine but you do listen to digital.

Well, to be absolutely factual. Nobody listens to digital. We all listen in analog.

One simple reason why the playback device that follows best the analog waveform sounds best - vinyl. Most will attest that high end tape sounds best, but availability is so poor - lp's like it or not are the best sounding commercially available format.

But, enjoy your cd's listening in analog.

 

[dctom]

I must say when I started the thread I was idlely wondering what others thought on the cost effectiveness of vinyl, given the standard of digital now. I was locked in to vinyl, my interest in hifi beginning in the 70s, it was vinyl and R to R tape. Cassette came along but never approached vinyl quality for me.

The SQ of digital v analogue debate is a huge can of worms - and then you have the issue of what analogue rig is being compared to which digital set-up. This gives rise to an endless "yes but, no but, what if" commentary, which is no bad thing I guess as the object of the forum is to encourage discourse. However there is no doubt, IMO, digital has improved much in the last few years, especially with hi-resolution being more available.

Seeing the cartoon just made me think of how much more it had cost me to maintain the vinyl habit at a serious level, compared to seriously good digital.

Also the fact that to obtain the very best sort of sound from vinyl, generally, one needs to obtain audiophile releases at pretty steep prices, often re-releases of vintage LPs. I am not really interested in endless re-releases of Kind of blue, Sticky fingers, DSOTM et al. Hi-rez downloads are usually much cheaper and as microstrip points out most new vinyl releases are recorded in the digital domain.

The quality of new vinyl is also very mixed, I have often had to return albums to obtain a half decent copy. They often still have surface noise even after ultra sonic cleaning. Frequently 30yr or 40 yr old 2nd hand albums sound better (after cleaning). There are exceptions and when you get them it is a bit of a hallelujah moment. It shouldn't be but regardless of what we spend on gear the sound quality is always dictated by the recording/mastering/pressing issue.

 

[microstrip]

I don't know what vinyl set up you get at 8k, but the Goldmund Studio (used price 3 - 4k with arm), a 2k cart, and an ASR phono (used price 2 - 3k), beats many digital. So by reports, would PTP Lenco, retail at 2.5k Euro, but arm additional. Add FR 64s/SME 3012r, used price less than 2k. The Metronome CD+Kalista at 85k was beaten by a much lower priced analog set up, and there were 4 people in that room including me, all of whom agreed.

So is there a crossover point at cost till which digital is superior because of the cost of ancillaries in analog? Yes, I think so. 8k might be it. For me Marty's Goldmund Studio set up, the PTP Lenco at 2.5k EUR, and then the Schopper Thorens 124 (retail 7k EUR) can start surpassing digital. Arm cost FR 64s/SME3012r at < 2k USD, phonos (going by reports), ASR Basis Exclusiv, EAR, Tron, Aesthetix IO Sig, all of which used prices vary from 2k - 4k GBP. The Audio Technica Art 9 cart at a retail of under 1.5k GBP is great.

In fact, the cost is records - buying them, cleaning them, managing them and set-up. Unless you can buy the whole matched analog rig, you might have "discovery" costs till you hit the right combo.

Comparing used analog prices prices with new digital prices is misleading. You can now get excellent sounding digital for about one third retail price, even less if you just want to play CDs.

I can refer to occasions where digital sounded much better than analog and vice-versa. Most of the time question of recording and system composition.

Unfortunately the thread is drifting - it seemed to me the idea was to know what people do and why, not what they think others must do or what is the best.

 

[bonzo75]

Comparing used analog prices prices with new digital prices is misleading. You can now get excellent sounding digital for about one third retail price, even less if you just want to play CDs.

I can refer to occasions where digital sounded much better than analog and vice-versa. Most of the time question of recording and system composition.

Unfortunately the thread is drifting - it seemed to me the idea was to know what people do and why, not what they think others must do or what is the best.

I didn't mean to compare. I was saying his 8k is probably right, possibly a bit more, than stating what I think.The crossover points are. Whether one crosses those points used or new is upto them

 

[morricab]

Jeffrey,
Minor and obscure labels mostly, but also Soul Note and ECM. Perhaps with the resurgence of LP the situation has changed for LPs on labels like those latter ones (I stand corrected on this one), even though I am not sure if this also holds for new releases; maybe it does. Yet the availability of music on CDs has also changed. Early CD transfers were often terrible indeed, but that has changed as well.

Lots of good ECM on vinyl...lots. Some of my very best recordings are vinyl ECMs, like Chick Corea's 1981 improvisations for trio...amazing sound quality and playing.

 

[morricab]

and in 2020 back to 8 track!!!

 

[microstrip]

What difference does that make? Considering vinyl sounds better the majority of the time is testament of the magic of vinyl.

How do you know on new releases whether digital, analog or a combination of both are used? It is not as if you have a choice like on reissues of what sounds best - original or reissue?

I buy new releases albums based on whether I like the music or not - if it sounds great, that really is cream. There are not many new release vinyl than truly sound terrible- does happen thou but the majority of my purchases sound fine.

I feel sorry for people who's systems seem to dictate the type of music they purchase, or do not purchase.

Cheers

You have a point - debating vinyl is not the same thing as debating analog or digital.

Considering vinyl sounds better the majority of the time is an expression of your music choices, preference or inadequacy of the digital system, nothing else. We should surely respect it.

But people can have different views on this hobby, not just the what matters is music. We naturally optimize the systems for the type of music we prefer and naturally avoid music that does not sound good our systems. IMHO , feeling sorry for people in this hobby is just misunderstanding it.

 

[still-one]

This is an interesting opening to the question. Time is precious. When I spend time to listen to music I want the most emotionally involving experience I can create. For me, that means vinyl.

Time is precious. With vinyl you have to get up and change sides at least every 20 minutes and for me that is more often. I don't listen to the crappy tracks that are on 99% of every album. I want to skip them, so with vinyl it's up and down every few minutes. For me that is no way to enjoy music.

 

[MadFloyd]

At this point, this whole vinyl vs digital is really just a subjective and personal thing. I have a decent vinyl rig but my digital sounds better - at least currently (it's been the other way around in the past).

Sometimes I love that vinyl makes me get up and flip it, sometimes, like when eating dinner, it's a real pita.

 

[marslo]

I like every 3 months different source
When I bought my Shelter Harmony , I prefered vinyl.
Then I rediscovered sacd's from La Fontaine, what a soundstage and holography, especially with classical Living Stereo recordings.
Then I upgraded my Big 7 and bought Siltech Rouby Mountain II power cord and Salamandra unpowered usb cable.
Now I cannot say which one is better. They are a bit different - sacd more precise and transparent, Big 7 more organic and palpable. With best vinyls I feel a touch of MUSIC, but not all of them are of good quality, pops and cliks exist, it' s a reality.
What I really like about my 3 sources is to compare them as a part of the hobby and be able to play vinyls, cd/sacds and files , I enjoy them all.
Since 3 weeks I can ripp my sacd's and play them as DSD files with my Big 7, I am listennig right now to the album " Spain" by Living Stereo as DSF 64 files.

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

Well ... call this an evolution or a coming to term or ...

This kind of thread a few months ago would have come out as an overwhelming majority of people supporting their vinyl as the"end-of-it-and-that's-that" sprinkled with a good amount of condescension for those who don't come out enough to know that Vinyl is naturally superior to anything digital .. Today, however it turns out at the end: descent to the abyss, thread blowing up , trolling , etc., it is clear that a growing number, not yet a majority ( in due time )take their digital more seriously, respect it , are quite satisfied with it and consider it their preferred medium for enjoying music ...

Interesting. Digital has finally arrived to the WBF.

for many

for some

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

The tactile experience of playing vinyl is a hugely important factor for me. I somehow feel much more connected to the music and that is why I prefer playing vinyl. I don't nearly get as emotionally involved with digital.

 

[gilles13]

The tactile experience of playing vinyl is a hugely important factor for me. I somehow feel much more connected to the music and that is why I prefer playing vinyl. I don't nearly get as emotionally involved with digital.

The same for me. I listen classical and mainly voices choral music, opera... and with vinyl I can imagine I am at opera not with digital.
Recently I was listening to a Linn record of symphonic music and disliked a lot how it was made. You could not imaging being in the symphonic hall.

 

[microstrip]

(...) Since 3 weeks I can ripp my sacd's and play them as DSD files with my Big 7, I am listennig right now to the album " Spain" by Living Stereo as DSF 64 files.

Are you using the PS3 or Oppo/Pioneer BDP160/170?

 

[marslo]

Are you using the PS3 or Oppo/Pioneer BD160/170?

SH Pioneer BDP 160.

 

[microstrip]

The same for me. I listen classical and mainly voices choral music, opera... and with vinyl I can imagine I am at opera not with digital.
Recently I was listening to a Linn record of symphonic music and disliked a lot how it was made. You could not imaging being in the symphonic hall.

Easy to understand considering your excellent, but vintage equipment. Although I enjoy vintage equipment, most of the times it sounds miserable with digital.

 

[microstrip]

SH Pioneer BDP 160.

Thanks! I already have the BDP 160, but still did not have the time to install the software. Knowing of your success I will try to do it as soon as I get some time. How long did you need to get it working?